Jaguars4life
Banned
What if successful coup came to be around 1988-1991? Does the Cold War still go on or is it like our relationship with Russia today in OTL?
What if:What if the Soviet Union lived on?
- Thread starter Jaguars4life
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Depends on the out of the coup, do the Soviets send in the troops in Eastern Europe?
If the coup is hard lined, xenophobic, rhetoric, we will smash you then yes, if they pull out the troops in Eastern Europe things might get ugly.
The problem is that the Soviet Union was imploding, the genie was out of the bottle. Something had to give. The people wanted some steady bread and circus, they knew full well what the west had and they wanted some too. Chernobyl also shook confidence in the system as well.
If you get a more moderate crew who still want the change but not at the expense of the party, more of a China style, who promise the reforms in the long term but over a few five year plans then maybe.
Jaguars4life
Banned
Maybe the
1991 Soviet coup d'état attempt works in this ATL? Or
Gorbachev never comes into power?
if the coup works, I think it gets another year or two. A hardline soviet union with out reforms fails at this point.
with out Gorbachev, the soviet union could stumble along, with moderate reforms. Big issue is Afghanistan, dagastan/Chechnya.
life wasn't bad for the average citizens in the late 70s early 80s. It wasn't western Europe of course, but it wasn't a bad life.
with out Gorbachev, the soviet union could stumble along, with moderate reforms. Big issue is Afghanistan, dagastan/Chechnya.
life wasn't bad for the average citizens in the late 70s early 80s. It wasn't western Europe of course, but it wasn't a bad life.
by 91 the Warsaw pact is done.
a surviving soviet union would mean the west would be more inclined to help and integrate eastern Europe..
this in turn would force reforms on the soviets, the Baltics will still leave without being FORCED TO STAY.
you will need more people in power who are less afraid of change and more honest for long term success of the soviet union. its not that it was written that it would fail, only that its collapse is likely.
By the time of the coup, the Soviet Union was committed to change, there really was no going back with out a serious stalin style clamp down.
a surviving soviet union would mean the west would be more inclined to help and integrate eastern Europe..
this in turn would force reforms on the soviets, the Baltics will still leave without being FORCED TO STAY.
you will need more people in power who are less afraid of change and more honest for long term success of the soviet union. its not that it was written that it would fail, only that its collapse is likely.
By the time of the coup, the Soviet Union was committed to change, there really was no going back with out a serious stalin style clamp down.
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I was interested in this so I tried searching and I found a couple about a surviving USSR, but struggled to come up with ones actually relating the root cause behind the survival or a continued cold war. What do you search to find them?
A competently organised August 1991 coup? Certainly do-able (though the OTL version was so badly organised you'd think they were the British Labour Party).
- Lock up Yeltsin and any other potential focus of opposition: without a figurehead, everyone else will keep their head down (in the event, most people actually did).
- Declare an end to the hated perestroika. All subsequent hardship can be blamed on Gorbachev, Yeltsin, and company.
however it will be with in then soviet borders as by this time eastern Europe is gone
which in turn will make hardline activities that much harder
It's a bit double-edged. Towards the end, the Soviet model was basically to supply its Eastern European satellites with fuel and raw materials, in return for the finished goods. Economically, Moscow ended up a colony of its own political satellites. Alternatively, the financial cost of funding the military was prohibitive.
I think what you're looking at here is a return to war-time rationing ("blame Gorbachev" cries the regime). Within a few years though, an alternative opens up with China - the Soviets supply China with the resources and get consumer products in return.
Anaxagoras
Banned
Well, they might not have been starving in the streets, but the it was becoming increasingly difficult to conceal the fact that life in Western countries was vastly better than life in the Soviet Union. Slogans about living in a proletarian paradise mean little if your economy can't even produce a decent pair of blue jeans.
well one thing like is the fear and remember the war card being played unfortunately.
while I agree soviet orders kept eastern European factories open, they did the same inside the borders.
I could see the crack down.. But the people already know the truth so it's a wild card to how much they are willing to bleed
give the people something to work hard at and a comon enemy in a controller environment goes along way. it had only been 4-5 years but Gorbachev wasn't the reason the soviet union tanked, he was one of but a number of them.
Why is there no mention yet of the New Union Treaty, which promised democratic and federal reforms which were very popular in pretty much all the republics. It was the attempted coup that ruined everything. No coup attempt at all could lead to a democratization but retention of the union.