"What Madness Is This?" - A Timeline

[autonomousoblast]

Lol, okay. Like I said, Gabriel (any gender) would work for an AFC seal/logo, while Lady Liberty and Blind Bible Justice p) would probably work best for the national seal.

Gabriel could be presented as being a Roman-type warrior of sorts, in a tunic and breast-plate type way. Kind of like the monarch Liberty stabs on the OTL Virginia seal. Real-life Protestants I know would picture Gabriel that way.

If not Gabriel, than we can have Archangel Michael, who seems to be honoured by protestants? He would be depicted as having a sword of fire and a shield.

 

[Napoleon53]

If not Gabriel, than we can have Archangel Michael, who seems to be honoured by protestants? He would be depicted as having a sword of fire and a shield.

Yeah, that might work. Where would he go on it?

 

[autonomousoblast]

Yeah, that might work. Where would he go on it?

I was thinking him standing and someone prostrating in front of him, and that'd be the obverse side. Who should be depicted prostrating? Custer? Who is considered a founding father of the R.U.?

 

[Avskygod0]

I think i know why RU hates the Slavs


They have biggest country and RU is jelaous

 

[Clandango]

That sounds awesome. Yeah, this is pretty much spot-on. I may use it for references later. Quite soon I'll introduce soda, especially "Cokie-Cola:"

I would have suggested similar, though thought you might have been sated by the amount of references to it in American King. Going to bring back Dr. Pepper? That or use the logo of Pepsi. The colors are at more appropriate, though the French might snag it for their air force rondels.

 

[Clandango]

The Saint Gabriel idea is neat, but it might look too Catholic-y for the RU. They'd be more likely to represent Gabriel in an unrecognizable form, like an Alexander the Great-looking/ancient warrior chap or as simply an orb of power than as a recognizable "St. Gabriel" with the extremely Catholic wings and/or halo that would make it identifiable.

I'm whipping up the rough idea for the seal right now. Should only be a few minutes.

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/rel-ncf.html

 

[autonomousoblast]

I was thinking him standing and someone prostrating in front of him, and that'd be the obverse side. Who should be depicted prostrating? Custer? Who is considered a founding father of the R.U.?

Maybe depict Archangel Michael as crushing the evils of the R.U. boiled down to one figure? What would that figure look like? What will it represent?

 

[Napoleon53]

I was thinking him standing and someone prostrating in front of him, and that'd be the obverse side. Who should be depicted prostrating? Custer? Who is considered a founding father of the R.U.?

That's where I think the angel idea doesn't work; Willard Crawford is considered a founding father of sorts, along with Aaron Burr, but Crawford was not AFC and was not a dictator (or anything close). Custer was just the latest in a long string of consuls going back to 1801, but he just took more power. Thus, there's not anyone who would really be appropriate for prostrating. Before Custer, they also tried to not build up leaders (they thought it was Federalistic to do that), thus that part of the seal couldn't be adopted anytime before 1891 or so, and it wouldn't make sense to put Crawford or Burr on it by that point, especially after Burr's grandson was imprisoned by Custer when he took power. And Custer could never be put on it before his death in the 1920s. Custer still worried about people getting upset over Federalistic and dictatorial stuff. He intended Steele to be his successor who would finally bring about an Orwellian dictatorship (which he is doing currently). The only person who would fit bowing to St. Michael would be Uncle Sam or Lady Liberty, which would actually look kind of hilariously awesome.

 

[Napoleon53]

Maybe depict Archangel Michael as crushing the evils of the R.U. boiled down to one figure? What would that figure look like? What will it represent?

Ooh, I like this! The races loathed would be Slavs, Asians, Irish, Italians, French, and Arabs. Not sure what a figure representing them all would look like. I hate to say it, but I've got to draw a comparison to Bioshock:

Darn it, I hate it when this TL seems too Bioshock-ish, since I invented the main core of TTL before Infinite.

 

[autonomousoblast]

That's where I think the angel idea doesn't work; Willard Crawford is considered a founding father of sorts, along with Aaron Burr, but Crawford was not AFC and was not a dictator (or anything close). Custer was just the latest in a long string of consuls going back to 1801, but he just took more power. Thus, there's not anyone who would really be appropriate for prostrating. Before Custer, they also tried to not build up leaders (they thought it was Federalistic to do that), thus that part of the seal couldn't be adopted anytime before 1891 or so, and it wouldn't make sense to put Crawford or Burr on it by that point, especially after Burr's grandson was imprisoned by Custer when he took power. And Custer could never be put on it before his death in the 1920s. Custer still worried about people getting upset over Federalistic and dictatorial stuff. He intended Steele to be his successor who would finally bring about an Orwellian dictatorship (which he is doing currently). The only person who would fit bowing to St. Michael would be Uncle Sam or Lady Liberty, which would actually look kind of hilariously awesome.

Oh, I guess Uncle Sam would just be surreal, since there can't be any founding daddy on the seal, perhaps lets just depict Archangel Michael squashing a figure representing all the evils boiled down into one, the only problem is that it would look too Orthodox. I'd look to C.S. heraldry for inspiration, but even they were incredibly secular in their symbolism, repeating the classic republican symbols of phrygian caps, Lady Liberty, Minerva etc. Any more ideas on how to make the seal as religious as possible while still looking "American?"

EDIT: What about a religious allegory? Like on this proposed seal for the U.S.

 

[Napoleon53]

EDIT: Ooh, that looks interesting. What all is it symbolizing? The imperialists getting washed away by God to save America? That does certainly fit!

Other ideas: You could have Uncle Sam (or Justice) and Lady Liberty sort of stooping on one knee on each side of a shield with the Eye of Providence, kind of heralding God's watch over the Union (or Second Coming if you want to get creepy New Jerusalem antichrist-y about it ). They EoP symbolizes the RU dogma of Manifest Destiny in a nutshell, like God is watching over them on their divine mission to defeat all of their enemies. Manifest Destiny is one belief shared by virtually all Protestants in the Union, and it's the central tenet of America and the main reason for its existence.

Other than that, the main eagle is already clutching a cross in my rough draft, too, so I don't want it too bombastically plastered with more religious iconography, since the Union still has the traditional "'Murica, hell yeah!" red, white, and blue, Uncle Sam, and eagles everywhere. And they are a functioning republic, for now, and they do use some of the same secular symbols as OTL USA. EDIT: Although I do love that seal you just posted!

 

[autonomousoblast]

EDIT: Ooh, that looks interesting. What all is it symbolizing? The imperialists getting washed away by God to save America? That does certainly fit!

Other ideas: You could have Uncle Sam (or Justice) and Lady Liberty sort of stooping on one knee on each side of a shield with the Eye of Providence, kind of heralding God's watch over the Union (or Second Coming if you want to get creepy New Jerusalem antichrist-y about it ). They EoP symbolizes the RU dogma of Manifest Destiny in a nutshell, like God is watching over them on their divine mission to defeat all of their enemies. Manifest Destiny is one belief shared by virtually all Protestants in the Union, and it's the central tenet of America and the main reason for its existence.

Other than that, the main eagle is already clutching a cross in my rough draft, too, so I don't want it too bombastically plastered with more religious iconography, since the Union still has the traditional "'Murica, hell yeah!" red, white, and blue, Uncle Sam, and eagles everywhere. And they are a functioning republic, for now, and they do use some of the same secular symbols as OTL USA. EDIT: Although I do love that seal you just posted!

It uses a biblical allegory (Moses leading his people away from the tyrant Pharaoh, the theme being that opposing tyranny is obeying god) that can be changed around to be a bit more authoritarian. I'll see tonight what I can come up with and tell you.

 

[Napoleon53]

All right, most of these are real people, but some are fictional. I'm also going to post a second version of the last chapter now that all the gov't officials are mapped out. I've also now given Harding an important position. I guess he's a bit like Anton Drexler now. And here's another video! It's actually pretty nifty, including an audio SPEECH by Joe Steele I spliced together! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yKIZSyDD9YQ The 1940 date I put in is just a general idea. Lots of the officials you can see following Steele down the aisle are probably most of the same guys in this list. Watch carefully and you can spot other Madnessverse references, like the Eagle Standards of the Army and the OTL USA "MDP flags." The video ends with an anarchist rushing the stage in an assassination attempt, only to be beaten to death by Party goons.
​

THE UNION GOVERNMENT
-1930-

THE CHIEF CONSULS

• Joseph Steele, First Chief Consul
• Franklin M. Roosevelt, Second Chief Consul

REPUBLICAN UNION AEROFORCE

• Manfred Steiner, Chief
• Charles Lindbergh, Deputy Chief
• Harold Jones, Secretary of Aeroforce Affairs

REPUBLICAN UNION NAVY

• William Sims, Grand Admiral
• Jethro Powell, Admiral, Pacific Fleet
  
• James Crawford Worth, Admiral, Atlantic Fleet
• Hans Schneider, Admiral, Caribbean Fleet
• Gerald Thomas, Secretary of Naval Affairs
  

REPUBLICAN UNION ARMY

• John Pershing, Grand Marshal
  
• Albert H. Blanding, Deputy Marshal
  
• George Dudley Rhodes, General, Army of the East
  
• William Durward Connor, General, Army of the Midwest
• Peyton C. March, General, Army of the West
• Gunther Carlstrom, Army of Mexico
• Maxwell Bolten, Army of Central America
• Mathias Mathers, Secretary of Army Affairs
  

OFFICE OF RACIAL AND RELIGIOUS AFFAIRS

• Joseph Gobells, Sky Marshal
  
• Whitey Goldman, Secretary
• Burton Winfield, Under-Secretary
  

MILITARY POLICE

• William J. Donovan, Chief
  
• George Custer McDonald, Deputy Chief
• Andrew Uriah Hicks, Secretary of Commerce and Ports
• Horatio Keller, Attorney General
• Stephen Brandenburg, Chief Warden of Prisons and Penal Affairs
  

CUSTER YOUTH BRIGADE

• Calvin Coolidge, Headmaster-Marshal
• Wendell Wilkie, Deputy Headmaster-Marshal
  

DEPARTMENT OF EDUCATION AND ENLIGHTENMENT

• Albert Barns, Chief
• Reginald Rodney Kingston, Deputy Chief

DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

• Robert Harrison, Chief
  
• Willard Thompson-Parker, Deputy Chief

DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY

• Charles Goodyear II, Chief Treasurer
  
• Ogden L. Mills, Deputy Treasurer

DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE AND INDUSTRY

• Gaskell Romney, Chief
• Jeremiah Woods, Deputy Chief

DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS

• Quentin Morgan, Chief
• Anthony Grant, Deputy Chief

MANIFEST DESTINY PARTY

• Warren G. Harding, Chief Minister
  
• Edward Martin, Deputy Minister

 

[Clandango]

Foreign Affairs seems markedly absent. Also, perhaps one of the neighbor countries has a Secretary of State as it was originally intended to be?

 

[Napoleon53]

Foreign Affairs seems markedly absent. Also, perhaps one of the neighbor countries has a Secretary of State as it was originally intended to be?

I actually thought of that; Foreign Affairs will be handled by the Chief Consuls with advice from their Chiefs of the Armed Forces (Aeroforce, Navy, Army...) and other government officers they think should have input. I might reveal in the finalized government chapter that one of the Second Chief Consul's few duties is chief diplomat, thus he would fulfill a FA type position. Basically, Custer would have done away with any FA if it ever existed ITTL, as he pretty much ran all interaction with the outside world. Steele and Roosevelt will be even more controlling.

Oh yeah, Virginia's government would be almost identical in most respects to OTL USA, with some differences (House of Burgesses instead of a Congress). I'm sure at least VA has a Sec. of State, and probably other recognizable features like a Supreme Court, etc.

 

[Clandango]

Being a British Home Secretary or Russian Secretary of the Interior, then?

 

[Napoleon53]

Being a British Home Secretary or Russian Secretary of the Interior, then?

Yeah, I think so, if I get you right, although RUMP would cover some of those duties.

 

[Deleted member 14881]

Does Joe Steele have any kids, Napoleon?

 

[Napoleon53]

Does Joe Steele have any kids, Napoleon?

Darn, I should cover this since I remember thinking it should be a plot point! Nope, not at the moment. It'll be part of his personality of "trust no one," and that he's too busy being "married to the MDP." Eventually I might have him get hitched, but as of right now, if he has any kids they're illegitimate.

 

[Deleted member 14881]

What is the Union's view on Science and do they have any quibbles on Genetics and biology?