Which African 'Empire' had the most potential?

[how]

Generally the largest and strongest empires from OTL were either European or Asian so I was wondering which empire based in Africa had the best chance to become one of the if not the greatest empires in history in an alternate timeline?

Of the poll choices; 6 were based in Egypt, 3 were based in Morocco, 2 were based in Tunisia, 2 were based in West Africa, 2 were based in East Africa, the two biggest were both Egyptian (Fatimids, Khedivate).

I would think an North-East / East African and North-West / West African empire could both co-exist whilst also controlling vast amounts of territories with the border being Gabes - Tunisian salt lakes.

Empires is in quotation marks as not all of these were empires so empire is being used more figeratively.

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

I voted for the New Kingdom because, as the only survivors of the Sea Peoples' onslaught, they could have had the run of the known world had they reversed their decline.

 

[Domz]

North Africa obviously had the greatest potential. The problem with Subsaharan Africa is that they were super insular and had no close trade connections to the Mediterranean or the Indian Ocean (which wouldn't happen until 20th century globalization and modern shipping/planes). West Africa obviously was impressive but its sheer size and geography would have hampered any attempts at continental expansion (it took the Europeans until the late 19th century, with steamboats, machine guns, and modern medicine to finally conquer Africa, something which they were light years ahead of compared to other world civilizations). If you really want to imagine an African civilization conquering a large chunk of the continent, try post-Colonialism Africa (even in OTL you have Europe-sized states like the Congo with dozens of ethnic groups and languages fighting each other out in little civil wars). I personally include the Caliphates/Mediterranean world into African history so there's that. The North-South cross-latitudinal geography of Africa was seriously playing against Africa's favor, same with the Americas (Southeast Asia would have suffered the same fate too if it wasn't for the fact that sea travel was much more accessible than land travel for civilizations historically).

 

[Umbral]

Garmantians maybe.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

I vote for the Rovzi in latter day Zimbabwe/Mozambique. They had strong ties with the Portuguese and the British and IIRC, the only reason they fell was because of the turmoil of the Mfecane/Difecane

 

[The Anglo-Dutch Union]

A trade empire along the swahili coast would have a lot of potential

 

[how]

A trade empire along the swahili coast would have a lot of potential

Kilwa Sultanate?

 

[Hearkener]

The problem with Subsaharan Africa is that they were super insular and had no close trade connections to the Mediterranean or the Indian Ocean (which wouldn't happen until 20th century globalization and modern shipping/planes).

The Trans-Sahara trade:

The Aksumite Empire literally ruling parts of Arabia:

Swahili traders regularily crossing the Indian Ocean:

The cult of Hathor making its way from central Africa all the way to the Nile Delta:

Generally the largest and strongest empires from OTL were either European or Asian so I was wondering which empire based in Africa had the best chance to become one of the if not the greatest empires in history in an alternate timeline?

The issue with being the largest empire while on only the second largest continent is obvious I think.

Aksum is my best bet for significant territorial expansion outside of the continent. They could plausibly have ruled most of Arabia and the EA coast.

 

[GameBawesome]

The Saadi Dynasty of Morocco is underrated. They expanded South and destroyed the Songhai Empire and weakened the Mali Empire. They also played in European politics, allying with England against Spain. Had they remained unified and didn’t collapse after Al-Mansur’s death and maintained their gains, they could’ve dominated their part of North Africa

 

[Derek Pullem]

The Saadi Dynasty of Morocco is underrated. They expanded South and destroyed the Songhai Empire and weakened the Mali Empire. They also played in European politics, allying with England against Spain. Had they remained unified and didn’t collapse after Al-Mansur’s death and maintained their gains, they could’ve dominated their part of North Africa

Conversely a defeat for the Saadi in the war against Songhai might cement the Songhai Empire as an emerging power. Particularly if they end up reverse engineering / acquiring significant gunpowder weaponry e.g. from captured prisoners.

 

[GuildedAgeNostalgia]

Have Egypt build a Great Wall from the Red Sea to Mediterranean which keeps out the Mesopotamian civilizations, allowing Egypt to conquer and assimilate the entire Upper Nile and all of North Africa east of Carthage.

 

[Gabingston]

Have Egypt build a Great Wall from the Red Sea to Mediterranean which keeps out the Mesopotamian civilizations, allowing Egypt to conquer and assimilate the entire Upper Nile and all of North Africa east of Carthage.

Would they have made the Mesopotamians pay for it?

 

[tus3]

? I noticed the Ptolemaic Egypt apparently has one vote more than the New Kingdom of Egypt.
May I ask on which logic that was based? The Ptolemids were both an unstable mess and a foreign dynasty lacking any support amongst the majority of the population; I do not see how they could have had more potential than the New Kingdom.

 

[Sarthak]

The Saadi Dynasty of Morocco is underrated. They expanded South and destroyed the Songhai Empire and weakened the Mali Empire. They also played in European politics, allying with England against Spain. Had they remained unified and didn’t collapse after Al-Mansur’s death and maintained their gains, they could’ve dominated their part of North Africa

There was also the real fear that the Saadis in support of the Moriscos could land in Iberia again and cement themselves on the Iberian Peninsula. Per Philip II and Duke John of Austria it was a real possibility because the Spanish fleet was decimated at the time and their European commitments made their main army in Castile-Aragon pitifully weak.

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

? I noticed the Ptolemaic Egypt apparently has one vote more than the New Kingdom of Egypt.
May I ask on which logic that was based? The Ptolemids were both an unstable mess and a foreign dynasty lacking any support amongst the majority of the population; I do not see how they could have had more potential than the New Kingdom.

Not to mention, Carthage has 15 votes and the Khedivate has 18 votes while neither has recieved even a single comment vouching for them.

Not surprising, polls on here tend to act as an invitation to *not* elaborate on one's position.

 

[Monter]

? I noticed the Ptolemaic Egypt apparently has one vote more than the New Kingdom of Egypt.
May I ask on which logic that was based? The Ptolemids were both an unstable mess and a foreign dynasty lacking any support amongst the majority of the population; I do not see how they could have had more potential than the New Kingdom.

Most people don't really know Ancient Egypt beyond "woo pyramids" and "weeew Cleopatra", those who know barely anything will more likely know about just the Ptolomeys rather than the previous 28 different dynasties.

 

[how]

Most people don't really know Ancient Egypt beyond "woo pyramids" and "weeew Cleopatra", those who know barely anything will more likely know about just the Ptolomeys rather than the previous 28 different dynasties.

Early Ptolemaic rulers had potential, Ptolemy III failed to capitalise on his success against the Seleucids, if they had taken and held Syria to join the holdings in Asia Minor then that would have been a start, Mesopotamia would probably have been a stretch but they could have become the hegemon of the Hellenistic kingdoms.

 

[Truenorth14]

I feel the Khedivate had a serious chance if only a few things were different, aka Western Powers didn't mind an Ottoman fall.

 

[Lord Enot]

Have Egypt build a Great Wall from the Red Sea to Mediterranean which keeps out the Mesopotamian civilizations, allowing Egypt to conquer and assimilate the entire Upper Nile and all of North Africa east of Carthage.

It's such an idiotic idea that several pharaohs rolled over in their pyramids if be honest.
But when it comes to the list, the most unrealised potential lies with New Kingdom Egypt, even though it remained one of the strongest countries in the region.

 

[how]

It's such an idiotic idea that several pharaohs rolled over in their pyramids if be honest.
But when it comes to the list, the most unrealised potential lies with New Kingdom Egypt, even though it remained one of the strongest countries in the region.

Not as bad as causewaylion though but its up there alright