Which Founder's Death Would Be Most Significant?

Which Founder's Death Would Have Been Most Significant?

  • John Adams

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Benjamin Franklin

    Votes: 8 12.9%
  • Alexander Hamilton

    Votes: 5 8.1%
  • John Hancock

    Votes: 1 1.6%
  • John Jay

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • James Madison

    Votes: 3 4.8%
  • Thomas Jefferson

    Votes: 4 6.5%
  • Thomas Paine

    Votes: 5 8.1%
  • George Washington

    Votes: 32 51.6%
  • Other (Please Specify)

    Votes: 1 1.6%

  • Total voters
    62

Anaxagoras

Banned
Suppose that, on April 19, 1775 (the day the Revolutionary War began with the fighting at Lexington and Concord), one of the Founder Fathers had a heart attack and died. Whose death would have had the greatest impact on the future course of history?
 
Suppose that, on April 19, 1775 (the day the Revolutionary War began with the fighting at Lexington and Concord), one of the Founder Fathers had a heart attack and died. Whose death would have had the greatest impact on the future course of history?

Washington, of course!
 
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many of these people can and would have a drastic impact on the course of history by dying.

Washington, however, would cause the rebellion to be militarily lost no later than autumn, 1776, at which time the DoI (if it existed) was still very experimental and could be disregarded by a lenient Britain.
 
We need another butterfly!

I voted Franklin, figuring that if Washington died maybe somebody else manages to step up and keep the army in the field while Franklin and Adams sway the French. This would be the place for a "Joseph Warren, Father of His Country" thread. :)
 
I voted Madison, for his tremendous contribution to the constitution. Washington would have been it, but I figured theres probably some equally capable military leader who I don't know about.
 
Hmm, interesting question. Certainly, all of them were influential. The question is how many of them were so unique as to be irreplaceable. I would tend to think that the answer should be the death which would have led to the most immediate change, since if a founder's death only causes a change latter on (i.e. in the case of Madison), butterflies would obscure matters greatly.

In this light, I think there are two contenders: George Washington and Thomas Paine. John Adams might be another, but his marshalling of the movement for independence was a group effort; and of course, Adams himself was sometimes the movement's biggest liability. As to Washington, it's hard to tell. There were other military commnaders that might have filled a role if needed; there's also something of a cult around the figure of Washington that makes it hard to assess his indispensability. Nevertheless, I've read enough TLs with a successfull (enough) revolution that I think you could have found a different commander-in-chief (you will however produce a very different USA).

I tend to think the choice might be Thomas Paine, assuming that his death also precludes the composition of Common Sense. The pamphlet had a huge effect in fueling the outbreak of truly republican sentiment in the colonies on a large scale. Now, removing the pamphlet doesn't drastically increase the number of loyalists; however, it might well mean that the number of "those in the middle" is increased. This in turn means the Revolution takes on more of the over tones of internal civil strife, with Patriot/Radical against Loyalist/Tory to a greater extent than OTL. I'd argue this a greater change because it will fundamentally alter the nature of the American Revolution. Just my two cents, though.
 
I voted Franklin, figuring that if Washington died maybe somebody else manages to step up and keep the army in the field while Franklin and Adams sway the French. This would be the place for a "Joseph Warren, Father of His Country" thread. :)

Or the butterflies from Washington's death mean that Benedict Arnold doesn't turn his coat. How about "Arnoldstown DC" ? :D

Cheers,
Nigel.
 

Thande

Donor
Thomas Paine, I think. Franklin was hugely influential earlier on, but by this point he had done all the most important stuff. Washington? No, the Americans had plenty of lacklustre generals to go around. But Paine went on to significantly influence the French Revolution, the concept of human rights, and thus, arguably, the whole makeup of modern politics.
 

HueyLong

Banned
Thomas Paine, I think. Franklin was hugely influential earlier on, but by this point he had done all the most important stuff. Washington? No, the Americans had plenty of lacklustre generals to go around. But Paine went on to significantly influence the French Revolution, the concept of human rights, and thus, arguably, the whole makeup of modern politics.

The other candidates had more than a few military and political flaws.

Arthur Lee, British citizen, soldier of fortune. At least he's from Virginia. But he kept the idea of militias around too long, even after it became clear a regular army was the only way to win.

Horatio Gates, from New England. Big political problem there. Then, there is his supposed involvement in a conspiracy against Congress, as well as his attitude towards that body. And thats not even bringing up his command flaws.

Benedict Arnold and others were really too junior at the time.

And all of this is ignoring the end of the Revolution. If someone other than Washington won the war......

(Note that I do not think Washington was some saint. He still had a character that helped the revolution, and he at least changed his strategy when it wasn't working, which is a rare trait among generals.)
 
Thomas Paine, I think. Franklin was hugely influential earlier on, but by this point he had done all the most important stuff. Washington? No, the Americans had plenty of lacklustre generals to go around. But Paine went on to significantly influence the French Revolution, the concept of human rights, and thus, arguably, the whole makeup of modern politics.

Seconded. A different military leads to a different military conflict, not to one of a completely different nature nor to enormous butterflies in other historical events (i.e. the French Revolution).
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
Thomas Paine, I think. Franklin was hugely influential earlier on, but by this point he had done all the most important stuff. Washington? No, the Americans had plenty of lacklustre generals to go around. But Paine went on to significantly influence the French Revolution, the concept of human rights, and thus, arguably, the whole makeup of modern politics.

Good points. I think similar arguments could be made for Jefferson.
 

Jasen777

Donor
Washington was a genuine celebrity before the war, it's not his tactic skills which were needed. Several times the army was on the verge of disintegrating and his presence saved it. Without him the army likely disappears in the winter of 76 or 77 and the war is lost. Nothing the others did will matter then.
 
Has to be Washington. Not because he was a great general or anything, I suspect that Benidict Arnold and Nathaniel Greene were both better, but because of what he did as President when he stepped down after two terms.

Without this example and precedent it established, there is no doubt in my mind that the US would have had several presidents become "President for Life". Considering the power that can amass in the Executive branch, this would have been a very bad thing.
 
I voted for Thomas Paine because the OP has the death being in 1775, while Paine's Common Sense was published in 1776. Although Washington may have prevented the army from disintegrating on many occasions as Jasen777 said, without Paine's Common Sense turning many middle-of-the-road people into republican supporters then there may never have been a Continental Army in the first place for Washington to lead....at least not in the sense we know it as today. There probably would have been an amalgamation of various militias into a Continental Army in support of the Patriot/Radical cause, but their numbers would have been smaller, perhaps even far smaller, and they would have faced off against British regulars as well as Loyalist/Tory militias in the scenario outlined by Nicomacheus. That would affect the nature of the American Revolution and no matter the result of this altered Revolution, history would be different because even if the Revolution resulted in independence, the nature of America afterwards would be different (there may not even be a united America). And if the Patriot militias never amalgamated or a Continental Army was never formed due to the popular sentiment stirred up by Paine, then Washington would have simply been the leader of one of many Patriot militias and probably be a minor figure in American and World history. And since the OP asked which Founding Father's death would have had the greatest impact on the future course of history and not just American history, then I would figure Paine's death in 1775 would be more significant than Washington's not only for the reasons outlined above, but the for the reasons Thande presented earlier (Paine's influence on the French Revolution, human rights and modern politics).
 
In this case, if I have to choose only one, I'd have to go with Washington.

His military contributions aside, I would concur that he set a good tone for the presidency, especially in his refusal to engage in factionalism. Another man in the office might have been more active on supporting one faction over another, leading to significantly more charged politics and through it more strain within the new republic, something it really didn't need in its fledgling years. In such a scenario we might not have seen the peaceful transfer of power from one faction to another, as in Adams to Jefferson, an important precedent itself. From this, it becomes more likely that the new republic would destabilize fairly quickly in the decades following, possibly causing an earlier civil war of some persuasion or the balkanized America that many AHers seem so fond of.

I'm not saying this is automatically what would happen without Washington, but I see it as a distinct possibility.
 
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