WI Cunaxa leads to the death of both Cyrus and the Great King ?

[Hecatee]

Simple question, difficult answer. What would have happened had Cyrus deployed his 10 000 Greek mercenaries in the center of his line ( despite Clearchus protests ), leading them from the front and getting killed by his enemies as historically but also killing the Great King ? With both persian pretendant to the throne dead, what would be the situation ? And would the 10 000 be able to come back to Greece ?

 

[Iñaki]

To the first question: surely some kind of chaos and semi-anarchy in Persia, by the time of Cunaxa, Egypt was in a succesful rebellion against Persia (well more than rebellion war of Independence), in 400 BC Sparta in OTL began the operations to reconquest the Ionian cities from persian domination, with the anarchy because the death of the two pretendants, Sparta would have an easier and more victorious campaign, plus like in OTL Evagoras of Chipre had profited this to try to control the phoenician cities (in OTL he briefly conquered Tiro in 383 BC), also with the struggle for the power that had began between different pretendants we would have rebellions of different satraps in Asia Menor to get independence (in OTL it began in 368 BC with help from Athens and Egypt, making of this chain of rebellions ofne of the worst crisis in the history of Persian Empire), this could combine with a succesful egyptian invasion of Palestine (like in OTL).

Conclusion: at least that the struggle for the power end quickly and the new king of king is some kind of very strong ruler like Cyrus or Darius the Great, we could see a probable situation in around 390 BC of an Ionian League more or less controlled by Sparta, the kingdom of Cyprus under Evagoras controlling also the Phoenician coast, Egypt controlling Palestine, and in Asia Menor the different satrapies of Capadocia, Pontus, Lydia and Caria in virtual or even formal independence.

Persia so has no mediterranean coast and controls Mesopotamia and Persia.

To the second question: Surely, if in OTL they get this with Artaxerves living, with the anarchy and the need of the possible persian pretenders to center in defeat the anothers, the greeks would have a more peaceful retreat.

 

[Hecatee]

Well at Cunaxa the Greeks lost all of their food supplies and had to rely on a market set up by Artaxerxes for them, and they had it for more than a month after that until the treason that led them leaderless and put Xenopho to the front fore. That's why I ask this second question. Also on might wonder what would become of the two persian forces too, without any royal leader...

In fact Artaxerxes right hand man could decide to take command of the armies at Cunaxa and thus simply prevent any long civil war because so many men were already under his orders that recruiting would become hard.

 

[Iñaki]

Originally posted by Hecatee
In fact Artaxerxes right hand man could decide to take command of the armies at Cunaxa and thus simply prevent any long civil war because so many men were already under his orders that recruiting would become hard.

Hmm, It would be not necessary to be of Royal blood to becoming King of Kings? (an example was the attitude of Artaxerxes III Oco that killed a lot of familiars when he become king of kings to avoid any possibility of a civil war while that the killing of persian generals to avoid a civil war seems not a common practice)

Or the right hand man was of royal blood? naturally, I am not total sure to this fact, but I have the feeling that being king of kings in Persia is not so easy as in the Period of III Century being Roman Emperor (when the commandant of a group of legions could easily become emperor).

Also I am not totally sure but if IIRC Artaxerxes not had a heir at the moment of the battle (but I suppose that we could found some cousins, and other familiars)

So in this case I was thinking more than in this ATL Cunaxa, the greeks effectively get killing Artaxerxes triggering disarray and chaos in the files of Artaxerxes but not the sufficient to avoid the death of Cyrus as you say, in fact the two armies suffers a lot and without leaders, disbands but naturally I am saying this trying to remember how worked the Persian Empire, so I admit that you could have some books that say you the different thing (apart that it seems that your strong point is ancient history, a thing very interesting because we have relatively little amount of ancient history experts -although some of this are no doubt one of the most interesting members of the board like Dominus or Imajin), but in this case it would be more probable a situation of chaos and disarray in both persian armies that effectively would mean the disbanding of both armies?

Respect to the fate of the greek mercenaries, I have the anabasis in some part of the little mess that is my private library so is some difficult to consult that (because first I have to found it) but with Artaxerxes army in fact without leader and could be disbanded, the greeks could make a more easy way to Ionian cities instead to go by the way of the Black Sea, apart of this I was thinking if Artaxerxes used a market to supply the greeks, this could mean that Artaxerxes feared a lot of the greeks because I could suppose that if Artaxerxes not provied food to the greeks, these could try to take it by the force (and being the more disciplined force at these moments in Asia it would be rather easy to obtain it), so without market the greeks could obtain the food by the force? and it could decide to go by a more direct way to Greece?

 

[Hecatee]

Well should you find your book Anabasis look at II.1 : you'll see that even with the death of Cyrus his armies did not dissolve and the greeks offered the crown of Persia to one of it's leaders.

The right hand man of the King I mentionned was Tissapherne, a high ranking Satrap but without royal blood ( he'll marry the Kings daughter after Cunaxa ) : he was hated by the King's mother, who was one of those who held the most power at the time, but had a lot of power all by himself...

( and yes I'm a bit of an ancient world specialist since I should get my diploma in Ancient History in two weeks if all goes well )

 

[Iñaki]

Originally posted by Hecatee
Well should you find your book Anabasis look at II.1 : you'll see that even with the death of Cyrus his armies did not dissolve and the greeks offered the crown of Persia to one of it's leaders.

The right hand man of the King I mentionned was Tissapherne, a high ranking Satrap but without royal blood ( he'll marry the Kings daughter after Cunaxa ) : he was hated by the King's mother, who was one of those who held the most power at the time, but had a lot of power all by himself...

( and yes I'm a bit of an ancient world specialist since I should get my diploma in Ancient History in two weeks if all goes well )

Xenophonte dixit

Well, I was mistaken, so if the king and the pretender dies, could be possible that with the death of Artaxerxes the leader of Cyrus army that in OTL was offered the crown by the greeks could say yes because it seems that there is some good possibilities with the death of Artaxerxes that the pretender´s army could win if continues the campaign?

So it is possible that the civil war could continue with Tissapherne and the persian leader of the Cyrus army continuing the war?

Apart of these questions, Congratulations by your future Ancient History diploma, I expect that you have any problem to finally get it and in a pair of weeks you will be happy and diplomated