Since it is the battle's anniversery today I thought I would ask the question, "What if France lost the Battle of Fontenoy?" What does this mean for the War of Austrian succesion? Napoleon said that the victory prolonged the Ancien Régime monarchy in France by 30 years, is he right? Will a decisive victory by the Anglo-Dutch-Hanoverian army lead to an earlier French revolutions?
WI: France loses the Battle of Fontenoy?
- Thread starter GeneralInTheShell
- Start date
Well, I'm not sure it gave a real advantage to french monarchy : when Louis XV refused a treaty of peace that assured him almost all the Austrian Netherlands (because he wanted to "be a king, and not a merchant) you had an important resentment in France :
-"What? We did all of this, made sacrifices and assured victories, and he just...give back entiere provinces to look generous?"
The french soldiers, and the entiere population felt to have fought only for "the king of Prussia".
It certainly contributed to the degradation of the royal image, that ended up to 1792.
-"What? We did all of this, made sacrifices and assured victories, and he just...give back entiere provinces to look generous?"
The french soldiers, and the entiere population felt to have fought only for "the king of Prussia".
It certainly contributed to the degradation of the royal image, that ended up to 1792.
1)To, i quote, "Act like a king, not a merchant". No kidding.
2)Probably because all the Austrian Netherlands could have been relativly undefensible for a post 1750-France. Still, just a part of it would have been OK to defend.
In fact, you find more information on this page.
-He gained Louisbourg in Nova Scotia, in exchange of the ALL Austrian Netherlands.
-Returned Madras to UK.
-Asiento renewed.
Remember, technically UK lost the war while France won.
-He gained Louisbourg in Nova Scotia, in exchange of the ALL Austrian Netherlands.
-Returned Madras to UK.
-Asiento renewed.
Remember, technically UK lost the war while France won.
Louis XIV a du se retourner dans sa tombe. That's really a stupid peace treaty no kidding.
A mon avis, il a pas fini de tourner le Louis-Dieudonné depuis...
In fact, Louis XIV was relativly unpopular, but never despised. (And still one of the favourite historical persons of Frenchmen, second or third place).
Louis XV was both hated and despised. This is the precise moment where people began to lost all respect for their kings.
It gave a little slogan during these years : "As stupid than the war". Maybe it's one of the reasons of why French Republic was really warlike up to 1792 (beside the main reason of being attacked by everyone else, of course).
EDIT : In fact, more I think of it, more it looks like a defeat at Fontenoy would have created a less important decline of french monarchy.
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He may roll right out one day.
Don't you means "as stupid as the peace" but otherwise I think you're spot on.
I always considered that peace stupid, but this is straight out retarded. Apres moi le deluge, indeed.
You know, the cliché of the blasé aristocrat tired of power and relying only on HIS men instead of competent ones, that prefers to pass the day with a rich woman rather than make the slightest effort?
He's the original one.
"Après moi, le déluge" is attributed to Louis XIV, not XV. But he actually never said that, and in fact he said by dying "Je m'en vais, mais l'état demeurera toujours" (I'm going now, but the state would stand). It's because of the french monarchist conception of state (since the Late Middle-Ages) : king is less a title than a function (Louis XIV talked about his "job of king") and during crownations, they were symbolically married to the state by the use of a ring.
Well, I suppose this is technically hijacking the thread, but WI we discuss the effects of a obvious/sane peace treaty?
Territorial
- France keeps Madras and the Austrian Netherlands. Streghtened French presence in south India and the Rhin border 60 years before Napoleon.
- Britain keeps Louisebourg. Americans don't get pissed for having to take it then hand it back.
Political
- The British are the most pissed with this peace. Well, after the Austrians I suppose.
- Netherlands becoming a de-facto British satellite as a result of having the French behemoth right to their south.
Territorial
- France keeps Madras and the Austrian Netherlands. Streghtened French presence in south India and the Rhin border 60 years before Napoleon.
- Britain keeps Louisebourg. Americans don't get pissed for having to take it then hand it back.
Political
- The British are the most pissed with this peace. Well, after the Austrians I suppose.
- Netherlands becoming a de-facto British satellite as a result of having the French behemoth right to their south.
In this configuration, what about Liege? It wasn't part of AN, and could became an advanced base into French Netherlands.
Could it be plausible to have the treaty giving Liège to Netherland, in sort of Bareer Town equivalent?
Could it be plausible to have the treaty giving Liège to Netherland, in sort of Bareer Town equivalent?
Maybe the idea to have a french army around the Rhine border could force some to piss the Prince-Bishop?
With some compensation or anything, because with these border, Liège is a spine put in the core of southern Netherlands, and the PB could be really tempted to have a french-friendly policy.
This would be great news for the Dutch Republic. After Fontenoy with fear that the French would invade the Netherlands, the Dutch appointed William IV statholder and gave him complete control of government and used it to fuck up the country for thirty years. Corruption, decline in trade and all that.
Without that thirty years of bad rule by William IV, we could see a Dutch resurgence, or at least having more strength with reform by a decent Grand Pensionary, of which there were many candidates. Interesting butterflies to think about.
Without that thirty years of bad rule by William IV, we could see a Dutch resurgence, or at least having more strength with reform by a decent Grand Pensionary, of which there were many candidates. Interesting butterflies to think about.