WI France suffered more territorial losses, even partition, after Napoleon?

[rfmcdonald]

Over at Quora, last week I answered a question. Why wasn't France partitioned among the Allies after the Napoleonic War? There were some obvious seams, even within the pre-1790 borders: Alsace might well have been brought back into the orbit of Germany, while French Flanders could have plausibly been added to the United Netherlands. A Spanish Roussillon, even, perhaps more? Maybe France itself might have been radically decentralized, so as to never pose a threat to its neighbours again.

Below is one sketch of one partition proposal, FYI.

In my answer, I concluded that, even after the second defeat of Napoleon in 1815, the other powers of Europe did not want to create an obvious power vacuum in Europe. Reducing the most powerful country in Europe to a low point would have created a power vacuum and the certainty of future instability. None of the statesmen wanted to risk a new round of French wars.

Could this have happened somehow? Maybe. What if Napoleon was able to outlast Waterloo, at least long enough to make the Allies think France would need to be radically diminished?

Thoughts?

 

[Orcot]

why is Calais not going to the united Netherlands?, also the somme seems like a decend defendable barrier.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bassi...ocalisation_-_bassin_houiller_de_la_Loire.svg
If possible italy would want those coal reserves

 

[HJ Tulp]

The partitions proposed in the map don't make that much sense though. What is Spain going to do with Southern France? It's full of French! The same for the northern cession to Prussia/Austria (good luck getting them to agree who get's what) which is also just a line drawn across the map.

 

[Sarthak]

The partitions proposed in the map don't make that much sense though. What is Spain going to do with Southern France? It's full of French! The same for the northern cession to Prussia/Austria (good luck getting them to agree who get's what) which is also just a line drawn across the map.

I agree. The max Spain could have taken was French Catalonia. The Austrians and Prussians would never agree on the northern French territories either.

 

[anotherlurker]

Austria didn't want Belgium back, chances are they're not going to want the rest either. They're interested in lands more close to home.

Maybe revive the kingdom of Burgundy that once existed in this general region instead?

 

[stevej713]

The attached map is too fanciful in my opinion, but France could definitely have ended up with worse terms than OTL. France was able to get off relatively well due to Talleyrand's skilled negotiations at the Congress of Vienna.

I agree. The max Spain could have taken was French Catalonia. The Austrians and Prussians would never agree on the northern French territories either.

They agreed on giving Prussia the Rhineland, didn't they? A few slices of Lorraine added on top would not be impossible to negotiate. Luxembourg would be more of a sticking point though.

 

[Comte de Dordogne]

It should be noted that most of the major powers (especially the United Kingdom) did not want to weaken France too much, because to dismember her would cause an imbalance of power on the continent (at the expense of London).
It should also be known that France had an excellent diplomat who defended its interests very well: Talleyrand.
If Napoleon manages to win after Waterloo but still loses in the end and Talleyrand dies before he can defend French interests we could see France perceived as a greater threat than expected.
It could lose more land after 1792:
-Alsace and much of Loraine.
-Flanders (as well as a return to the northern border of the 17th century).
-Roussillon.
-Corsica (rather improbable though, that's where Napoleon came from).
-The loss of the entire colonial empire.

Ripping more land from France is very improbable and difficult to carry out (it is the hard core of the country). Moreover, the question of the division of the former French lands remains open.
On the other hand, bringing France to its knees is not the best way to guarantee peace in the long term. France will be led by very unpopular Bourbons who failed to protect French interests and the risk of a second Nationalist Revolution cannot be excluded. On the rest of the continent the remaining powers are likely to go to war very quickly with the absence of a balance of power.