WI: Henry VIII dies in 1524

GauchoBadger

GauchoBadger

What if Henry VIII Tudor, king of England, had died in the one jousting accident that nearly killed him in march 1524, prior to breaking church relations with Rome and without leaving a surviving heir besides Mary?
Would Mary be able to smoothly wriggle her way into the throne? Who would contest the succession? Could England collapse into Wars of The Roses 2.0?
 
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Mikestone8

Mary succeed ds with Queen Catherine as Regent. Buckingham and Edmund De La Pole are dead, and Richard dlP is in exile, so there's no obvious alternative.
Big question is who Mary marries. Neither Charles V nor his brother have a son but James V of Scotland might be a possibility.
 
Jonathan

Jonathan

Catherine of Aragon is Queen regent for eight years old, Mary I along with Cardinal Thomas Wolsey, Bishop of York

Potential spouses:
- Henry Howard, Earl of Surrey (c. 1516) the eldest son of Thomas Howard, 3rd Duke of Norfolk by his second wife Elizabeth Stafford, a daughter of executed, Edward Stafford, 3rd Duke of Buckingham. He was thus descended from King Edward I on his father's side and from King Edward III on his mother's side.
- William Howard, 1st Baron Howard of Effingham (c. 1510–12/1/1573) another son of Thomas Howard.
-Henry Fitzalan, 12th Earl of Arundel KG (23 April 1512 – 24 February 1580) the only son of William Fitzalan, 11th Earl of Arundel, and his second wife Anne Percy, daughter of Henry Percy, 4th Earl of Northumberland, and was named for Henry VIII, who personally stood as his godfather at his baptism.
- Thomas Seymour, 1st Baron Seymour of Sudeley (c.  1508 – 20 March 1549) son of Sir John Seymour and Margaret Wentworth. He was the younger brother of Edward Seymour, 1st Duke of Somerset (1500–1552).

A foreign match could create complications with unions but possible foreign husbands:
- Ferdinand of Aragon and Castile (10 March 1503 – 25 July 1564) if he denounces his brothers claim.
Any of the younger sons of Manuel I of Portugal and his wife Maria of Aragon (sister of Catherine of Aragon)
Prince Ferdinand (5 June 1507-7 November 1534)​
Prince Afonso (23 April 1509-21 April 1540)​
Prince Henry (31 January 1512-31 January 1580)​
Prince Edward (7 October 1515-20 September 1540)​
 

dragonstoned

Regent Catherine of Aragon will most likely favor her nephew Emperor Charles as a consort and co-monarch as she did in OTL, but I doubt he'll be able wait for Mary to grow up, the age gap between them is just too much. I predict he'll still marry Isabella of Portugal for her dowry.

Francis, Duke of Brittany would make a very good catch as he is only two years younger than Mary. And his father King Francis would probably show interest in this match, but I don't see Catherine allying with the hated French.

A Portuguese Infante would do well, Manuel has five surviving sons, all of whom were of good age and half-Trastámara. I'm all in for an Tudor-Aviz England, and I believe Catherine would be as well.

And last but not least, there is James V, King of Scotland, who is personally my favorite candidate as his marriage to Mary will bring forth an earlier union of the crowns with an Tudor-Stuart ruling dynasty.
 

isabella

Catherine would like Emperor Charles as son-in-law or one of her Portuguese nephews but she is smart enough to recognize who James V is both the greatest obstacle to Mary’s rule and the best consort for her so will marry her daughter to him
 

Tyler96

dragonstoned said:
Francis, Duke of Brittany would make a very good catch as he is only two years younger than Mary. And his father King Francis would probably show interest in this match, but I don't see Catherine allying with the hated French.
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Such a match would also lead to a French-English Personal Union, which I'm not sure the English would want.
 

Rose’s War

Would there be a chance of the previous silent descendants of Anne of York rising up? She was the eldest daughter of York, and therefore they have a better - albeit two generations of female - claim to the throne. I believe that the ones that would be around at this time are:
Thomas Manners, Earl of Rutland (c.1497-1543) as well as Oliver Manners, Anthony Manners, Richard Manners, John Manners and six other daughters.
With the already weak Tudor claim now even weaker, perhaps they would come out of the woodworks - despite Thomas Manners' friendship with Henry VIII.
 

Rose’s War

Rose’s War said:
Would there be a chance of the previous silent descendants of Anne of York rising up? She was the eldest daughter of York, and therefore they have a better - albeit two generations of female - claim to the throne. I believe that the ones that would be around at this time are:
Thomas Manners, Earl of Rutland (c.1497-1543) as well as Oliver Manners, Anthony Manners, Richard Manners, John Manners and six other daughters.
With the already weak Tudor claim now even weaker, perhaps they would come out of the woodworks - despite Thomas Manners' friendship with Henry VIII.
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*previously
 
Grey Wolf

Grey Wolf

Donor
isabella said:
Catherine would like Emperor Charles as son-in-law or one of her Portuguese nephews but she is smart enough to recognize who James V is both the greatest obstacle to Mary’s rule and the best consort for her so will marry her daughter to him
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Would the Scottish regents go for this? Given that the main Scottish regent for a good while was actually heir presumptive to the Scottish throne, might he not be wary of marrying his king to the English in case they decided that he was a threat to them?
 

Fabius Maximus

GauchoBadger said:
Would Mary be able to smoothly wriggle her way into the throne? Who would contest the succession? Could England collapse into Wars of The Roses 2.0?
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I think she would have a fairly smooth accession. Contrary to what modern histories sometimes claim, there were no signs of discontent in the country at large over the prospect of a female monarch (it had been obvious for some time before the break with Rome that Catherine's child-bearing years were over), and neither Mary nor Elizabeth faced any difficulty becoming queen on account of their sex. Even Henry's discontent was less a case of "I have no son, therefore there will be civil war" than of "I have no son, therefore God must disapprove of my marriage."
 

LudwigRamirez

I do wonder how the British Isles would have done had Henry VIII died at 1524, Mary I his only heir but she still dying with no children, her cousin Mary Stuart of Scotland succeeding her as Mary II and the following Stuarts up to Cardinal Henry Benedict Stuart (King Henry IX) as Catholic Monarchs.
 
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Aichi72

Tudorfan said:
It could be arranged that their first child is King of England while the second gets France...
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In this time period, France is by far the more prestigious crown. Surely, the order would be reversed, with the elder son succeeding in France and the younger in England.
 
ordinarylittleme

ordinarylittleme

LudwigRamirez said:
I do wonder how the British Isles would have done had Henry VIII died at 1524, Mary I his only heir but she still dying with no children, her cousing Mary Stuart of Scotland succeeding her as Mary II and the following Stuarts up to Cardinal Henry Benedict Stuart (King Henry IX) as Catholic Monarchs.
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With a POD in 1524 it would be a stretch to assume MQOS would exist at all
Especially as James would likely marry Mary here, uniting the crowns
 
Tudorfan

Tudorfan

Aichi72 said:
In this time period, France is by far the more prestigious crown. Surely, the order would be reversed, with the elder son succeeding in France and the younger in England.
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The point still stands - they could assure there's no "threat" to either Kingdom by having one son get France and the other England.
 

Victoria

I agree that Mary would probably marry James V of Scotland but I wonder if Henry Brandon could be considered as a possible husband for her. He's too young but he is her cousin and would be in the line of succession.
 

VVD0D95

Banned
Victoria said:
I agree that Mary would probably marry James V of Scotland but I wonder if Henry Brandon could be considered as a possible husband for her. He's too young but he is her cousin and would be in the line of succession.
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Think the fact his father is hated by most in the assumed regency council and is the first to be a noble? Likely not
 
ordinarylittleme

ordinarylittleme

Victoria said:
I agree that Mary would probably marry James V of Scotland but I wonder if Henry Brandon could be considered as a possible husband for her. He's too young but he is her cousin and would be in the line of succession.
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James is senior male heir being both royal and son of the older sister so he would be the likelier spouse.
 
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