So WI Osman impressed with the Romans converts to orthodox Christianity. Firsthow can this occur. Next how would this change effect history. What happens to a world where the Ottomans are orthodox christians???
WI Osman converts to Christianity
- Thread starter Fredrick II Barbarossa
- Start date
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
You need a far stronger Byzantine Empire to have more of the Turkic tribes under their orbit. In OTL, around 15% of the Turks who migrated into Anatolia converted to Orthodox Christianity and likely served with the Byzantine Empire.
Oh I see so us it implausable by 13-14th centuries for tosman to convert?
Cuāuhtemōc
Banned
It's extremely unlikely. As Don Grey stated, if Osman considers converting (one needs to find the reason why he would contemplate such a sucidal move) to Orthodox Christianity, he'll be killed.
According to the official story, Osman's conversion to Islam was chancy and surface - he found a battle in progress between Muslims and Nestorian Christians and joined the Muslims because they appeared to be losing heroically. Change the battle, or Osman's mood, and you get him (and probably his friends) as Nestorian Christians. Heretics, of course, but much easier for Byzantium to swallow...
Now this is an interesting tidbit. Do you think I could please know your sources
It could not find anything about conversions to christianity after the seljuks conquered Anatolia in 1071, but in 1910, nearly a millenium after the conquest, 20% of the population of Anatolia were christian.
BTW the only complete christian turkic people live in Moldovia and Chuvashia. Tthe Uyghurs and the Naimans were also (partially) christian, but both people were forced(?) to become muslim.
BTW the only complete christian turkic people live in Moldovia and Chuvashia. Tthe Uyghurs and the Naimans were also (partially) christian, but both people were forced(?) to become muslim.
That Anatolian Christian population could just be Greeks and Armenians.
TurkishCapybara
The majority probably were but when Ataturk organised the massed expulsion of the 'Greeks' this was done on religious rather than linguistic terms. I.e. any Christians were classed as Greeks regardless of their language or cultural background and expelled and any Muslims welcomed from Greek lands. This suggests that at least some Turks, or people who adopted the Turkish language either converted or stayed Christian while changing their language. The number is probably relatively few as conversions to defeated and less powerful groups are generally less common and would lose the benefits of being Muslim in the Ottoman state.
Steve
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
If for some reason the Oguz or at least Osman's branch travelled north of the Caspian rather than South, there's a decent chance they could have been Christianized. While that would change everything to the point of being unrecognizable, leaving as much as possible the same, the Ottomans would instead of replacing the Byzantines would have become the Byzantines, i.e. take over and revitalize the empire as a new Dynasty.
A long time ago, Abdul said 15% of the Turkic migrants into Asia Minor converted to Christianity.
Although the tribes were on paper Muslim, many of the tribesmen might have been Muslims only nominally. Many societies became "Christian" because the leaders converted, but that doesn't mean everyone was an actual Christian.
Furthermore, if the active Muslims weren't the fanatical types, they might not have cared about conversions to Christianity, especially if the ones who did it weren't that great of Muslims to start with.
I think Abdul said Islam among the Turks was much more heterodox and rigid than elsewhere in the Islamic world.
I've heard that story before, although it was the Mongols, not Nestorian Christians.
Granted, Nestorianism was popular among the Mongols, but I don't think they were ever "officially" Nestorian.
Converting a monarch will eventually lead to a near total conversions of his subjects, if he manages to survive attacks and assassination attempts by those for whom religion is more important than loyality.
MerryPrankster
I know that before Genghis unified the tribes one of the major groups they were split into was led by a Nestorian family. They supported him early on then fell out when he wanted a wife from their family. He later, on obtaining more power, took her anyway and she was one reason the early Mongols were favourable to the eastern Christians. One POD that has been discussed before around here is that they accept his approach and he is even more favourable to the Nestorians.
Steve
Abdul Hadi Pasha
Banned
Nestorian Christians? Wha? How do Nestorians keep popping up uninvited to every scenario? The official story is that Osman's father Ertugrul came across a battle between the Seljuks and the Mongols, and chivalrously chose to join the losing side.
Later, Osman was spending the night in a Muslim scholar's house and read the entire Quran standing, which caused an angel to appear and promise him a giant empire and Constantinople.
It's all bunk, the Ottomans most likely entered Anatolia with the Seljuks.