Sorry, we're not helping. I, for one, will shut up and let you get on with writing now 🙂
@darthfanta
For Mary, the Princess Royal to become Queen her father, Charles I, would have to include her in the Line of Succession.
How it worked pre-2013. Whether you were male or female your position in the Line of Succession depended on whether the first in line had children. In this case Charles, the eldest son of Queen Elizabeth II, had William and Henry (Harry). This meant that Charles' brothers and sister were, like everyone else, pushed back down the Line of Succession by at least two places. William and Catherine went on to have three children two sons and a daughter. If this were to happen pre-2013 then Louis would take precedence over Charlotte, but as Charlotte was born after the 2013 Act came in to force her position is fixed and will only change if and when George has children. The three children of William and Catherine take priority over Harry who is now sixth in line to the throne. When Harry and Meghan had Archie their son became seventh in line and pushed everyone else down.
Please don't blame me for your lack of understanding of how primogeniture operated in the United Kingdom.
You are confusing the issue. Pre-1707 the line of succession was based on gender (legitimate male heir) and if there was no legitimate male heir then by a Will and/or an Act of Parliament (Henry VIII) or through the right of conquest (Henry VII). Post-1707 the line of succession is based on the holder being a descendant of Sophia, Electress of Hanover. The common feature of both is the Law of Primogeniture i.e. only legitimate male heirs could inherit. In 2013 the Law of Primogeniture was dispensed with.
Victoria was the sole surviving child of the four eldest sons of George III, which made her fifth in line. The pertinent point being the absence of male children therefore the law of primogeniture could not operate.
When her uncle, William IV, died she ascended to the Throne of Great Britain and Ireland, but because the Kingdom of Hanover, which was a separate entity to the Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland, was governed by Salic Law Victoria, by virtue of her gender, could not become Queen of Hanover. This meant that the Throne of Hanover became vacant and the only person with a legitimate claim was Victoria's uncle Ernest Augustus, the fifth son of George III. Ernest Augustus could never become King of Great Britain and Ireland because as the sole surviving child with no male cousins of the four eldest sons of George III Victoria took priority over him.
I can accept that this is an alternate time line story I'm not stupid I understand what this forum is for. I, before you lot unleashed our egos on me, was merely responding to the OP. I decided to cite the historical events leading up to the POD in order to explain my answers to the questions. I was politely told to effectively shut up and go away.
Perhaps what you lot need to do is in the politest way possible go away for a bit and reflect on how you communicate with people on this forum especially new people because it is a turn off when people such as myself express our views and all we get profanities, shouting and told that we don't know anything.
Also if you want this story to develop naturally then surely its better to have it grounded in fact and logic rather than just it is because we say it is...
This was already addressed multiple times. By ‘resolved’, you mean Stephen the usurper losing the war and then given the face saving option of declaring the son of the original heiress his successor.The precedence of Henry II showed that the heiress’ sons(if not heiress herself)had a better right to the throne than anyone else. Baby Margaret’s sons would have the same weight of argument for the throne as well.Loathe as I am to derail further, I think there’s an aspect that has not been noted. As of 1504 the only queen had not really reigned. The interregnum of the 1140s was resolved by leaving Stephen on the throne and skipping Matilda by making Henry II his heir. That was why Henry VIII was adamant to do anything to have a male heir and that he preferred a child male heir to an adult female. In addition we’re looking at a regency for certain. The main precedent was for a man to rule and precedents are made as one goes. France had no precedent until the female child heiress was skipped over by her uncle(s). Once this happened no woman could ever rule France. Similarly Elizabeth II and Victoria would never have been Queen had the unique situation of the Tudor daughters not provided precedent for a female King and thereby for Mary II (who after all was acclaimed by the English authorities and had to persuade them to accept William III as her equal because she did not want to rule).
I think the best option would be for Grandpa Hal to try and get a few sons with Grandma Liz, and if Grandma Liz dies, find a new grandma to get a few more Tudor males.In this situation Henry of York is going to be King in all but name until 1520 or longer and it will be he who decides what happens to his ward as her Uncle and Regent, including who she marries. European and English history have ample instances where anything can happen - supercession, ‘sickness’, Levite marriage. Consider also that his father may have a view while he lives as to whether York marries before he dies. If York marries he can’t realistically expect to marry his niece (as that requires a vacancy). If he waits he’ll be 30+ and a bachelor - a slender reed to hang the Tudor lineage on if something happens to her and/or him. Then the throne is at risk of going to Scotland or France (via Elizabeth of York’s daughters husbands) or to a Yorkist and to civil war.
let’s see what our story maker decides as there is plausibility to several options, which have consequences of their own to guide the tale...
Knowing Thomas, I definitely think he would try to get her in asa companion to MargaretOn a new note, Maggie is about the same age as Anne Boleyn (if you are going by the 1501 date) would Thomas Boleyn try and get Anne is as a companion and later Lady In Waiting or is Anne still going to France, do ya’ll think?
I absolutely agree!Knowing Thomas, I definitely think he would try to get her in asa companion to Margaret
Yes, future English queens will not need to marry their uncles to secure the Crown.Well put I think. Acknowledges the issues but makes clear it's the only solution. And by the time we get another sole granddaughter or daughter her reign should be all but guaranteed rather than needing her uncle's hand.
Glad you enjoyed it. Elizabeth seems like she would be very good at mediating, considering what her teenage years were like.I like how you hint at Katherine's frustration but muted. I really like the idea of Elizabeth of York mediating and I'm excited to see how Meg grows. Great update!
Oh yes, Katherine will always see her little pearl as ranking higher than Henry, which will definitely irk him but is, as you pointed out, highly appropriate. Henry will indeed take a mistress long before he and Margaret are husband and wife in earnest, poor Margaret is going to have a lot to contend with in that arena. And Henry VII and Elizabeth of York are going to be following their OTL plan in regards to securing the succession after Arthur's death...Beautiful chapter, I like the way you dealt with the issues of Henry and Margaret having to marry - Henry VII might know it's the best thing to do, but he can't be too delighted with the idea that his son is going to have to wait so long to be able to secure the Succession... I wouldn't be surprised if Henry didn't start taking mistresses a long time before Margaret matures... you could almost end up with a triangle at the centre of the English Court if Henry is besotted with a mistress and refuses to give her up for the sake of the niece he's been forced to make his Queen.
And of course, Katherine would always see her daughter as outranking her brother-in-law. That's just so Katherine.
Henry will indeed take a mistress long before he and Margaret are husband and wife in earnest, poor Margaret is going to have a lot to contend with in that arena.
And Henry VII and Elizabeth of York are going to be following their OTL plan in regards to securing the succession after Arthur's death...
Slightly...either Elizabeth or her baby will survive ITTL and I'm leaning towards Elizabeth.Hopefully with a happier ending?
Slightly...either Elizabeth or her baby will survive ITTL and I'm leaning towards Elizabeth.