Would a Central Powers Victory be Dystopian?

You mean like how these same Germans had a civil war against the Nazis?
OTL the war ended with the SPD's demands for political change more than fulfilled. The idea that they would simply accept the Kaiser and the elit breaking their promise and actually taking away their rights instead of giving what they promised is very unlikely. Even if a civil war would be avoided or won by the conservatives Germany would be soo unstable after it that its power projection outside of the country would be very limited.

The nazis happened more than a decade after the war, under very specific circumstances and had a degree of popular support the german aristocracy and elite could only dream of, especially after a brutal war they led the nation into, even if that war was won.
You [recruits] have sworn loyalty to me. You have only one enemy and that is my enemy. In the present social confusion, it may come about that I order you to shoot down your own relatives, brothers or parents but even then you must follow my orders without a murmur. - Speech (23 November 1891), quoted in Michael Balfour, The Kaiser and His Times (London: Penguin, 1975), p. 158
That the Kaiser demanded full loyalty doesnt mean at all that he would get it - not to mention that quoting the Kaiser is IMO not worth much. You could find quotes from Wilhelm railing against the 'Yellow menace' and a few days later him detailing how an alliance between Germany, China and the US should be created to oppose the british and the Japanese. The guy was anything but consistent and given to wild fantazies and outburst going in wide ranging directions.
 
it would be a lot better to be lets say a Ukrainian villager
Well, that is not exactly certain. Ukraine was in a pretty bad spot at the end of WW1. The revolution had led to the Rada taking power as a socialist but not Bolshevik party and even they didn’t control much of the countryside. The Germans had supported the Rada against the Bolsheviks but then overthrown them and installed the Hetman who they forced to provide them food from a starving nation and then sent their own men out to gather it themselves. Starvation was common in the cities, and far from uncommon in the villages. Rural autarky was the rule, with atamany (basically bandit warlords) and village councils basically controlling the countryside.

If Germany wins then the Hetmanate will likely remain an undeclared vassal of Germany or be replaced with an even more pro-German leadership. Either way, they are not going to regain control of the countryside without a considerable amount of terror. Possibly long term terror. And that is if nobody in Germany gets bigger ideas of how Ukraine can benefit the German people.
 
Yeah, Ludendorff and some others of the generals had such plans. The small problem is that Germany after the war is going to be led by the SPD, not the generals The SPD was already the strongest party in the Reichstag before the war and looking at the election results of the interwar period they will only get stronger. [...] and Germany is going to be a stongly sozialdemocratic state for the forseeable future.
I wouldn't be so sure of that.

For one, the prewar SDP's share of the votes always clustered around 30% +- a few points (27% in 1898; 31% in 1903; 28% in 1907; 34% in 1912), and its growth to 37% in OTL's 1919 can be chiefly attributed to the German defeat, the immiseration that came during the war and continued afterward, and the collapse of the economy. In a German victory scenario, where it comes out of the war with gigantic new territories + large indemnities paid by the defeated powers, and with the quality of life obviously improving once the blockade is lifted and things get back to normal, I don't see them winning so strongly. As the main part of the dominant coalition during the war, they may go up in numbers like the Republican Union did in France, or they may go down like the Liberals in Britain. Could be either. But that is besides the point.

A pure Reichstag majority against the Polish Border Strip plan is not going to stop it, much like it didn't when the Prussians deported 30,000 Poles in the 1880s; to do that, they had to obtain a majority in the region the policy was happening in, the Prussian Landtag, which was dominated by the DkP-DRP coalition. In 1913, the last time Prussian elections were held before the Revolution, 202 out of 443 delegates were DkP and DRP. Allied with the National Liberals, who represented industrial interests that were very invested in building Mitteleuropa as a German economic fiefdom, that's around 270 votes, an unassailable majority.

IIRC, part of the deal with the PBS was that for it to happen at all, the Polish State Council had to have a majority YES vote... the Polish State Council, whose members were chosen by the German and Austrian military authorities (ie. by Ludendorff himself, effectively). Yeah, I somehow doubt that they'll say NO.
Add in that the election system in Prussia disfauvoring them is going to be gone shortly after the war (it was promised and woe to the idiot who tries to not keep that promise to millions of armed veterans),
Wilhelm's "Easter Message" (read here) did indeed talk of "reorganizing" the Prussian Landtag and doing away with the three class franchise.
However, I am approximately 1000% certain that if the new voting system they come up with means that the next Landtag will not permit Prussia to annex the PBS, the last act of the old Landtag will be to approve the plan.
 
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But if the Central Powers won, suffice to say that the butchery would've continued.
I guess just like with the Germans and the Japanese of WWII, the Turkish leaders in that era thought their sole demographic could somehow not only subjugate the rest of the others in their sphere, but outright outnumber them as well. The scale of such a genocidal dream is just baffling. Seems like a lot of work to do, let alone blood and suffering.
 
I wouldn't be so sure of that.

For one, the prewar SDP's share of the votes always clustered around 30% +- a few points (27% in 1898; 31% in 1903; 28% in 1907; 34% in 1912), and its growth to 37% in OTL's 1919 can be chiefly attributed to the German defeat, the immiseration that came during the war and continued afterward, and the collapse of the economy. In a German victory scenario, where it comes out of the war with gigantic new territories + large indemnities paid by the defeated powers, and with the quality of life obviously improving once the blockade is lifted and things get back to normal, I don't see them winning so strongly. As the main part of the dominant coalition during the war, they may go up in numbers like the Republican Union did in France, or they may go down like the Liberals in Britain. Could be either. But that is besides the point.
Barring a "home by christmas" scenario the war is going to be extremely miserable which will strengthen the SPD massively, and in everyconceivable way. (And even if it is, they will remain the strongest party in the Reichtag):
1. The misery of the war will stregthen their popular support per OTL
2. Many expected on the goverment side to be betrayed by the socialist when war breaks out. Instead they demontrated their loyalty and that they will not upend sozial order and can be worked with. They can be trusted.
A pure Reichstag majority against the Polish Border Strip plan is not going to stop it, much like it didn't when the Prussians deported 30,000 Poles in the 1880s; to do that, they had to obtain a majority in the region the policy was happening in, the Prussian Landtag, which was dominated by the DkP-DRP coalition. In 1913, the last time Prussian elections were held before the Revolution, 202 out of 443 delegates were DkP and DRP. Allied with the National Liberals, who represented industrial interests that were very invested in building Mitteleuropa as a German economic fiefdom, that's around 270 votes, an unassailable majority.

IIRC, part of the deal with the PBS was that for it to happen at all, the Polish State Council had to have a majority YES vote... the Polish State Council, whose members were chosen by the German and Austrian military authorities (ie. by Ludendorff himself, effectively). Yeah, I somehow doubt that they'll say NO.

Wilhelm's "Easter Message" (read here) did indeed talk of "reorganizing" the Prussian Landtag and doing away with the three class franchise.
However, I am approximately 1000% certain that if the new voting system they come up with means that the next Landtag will not permit Prussia to annex the PBS, the last act of the old Landtag will be to approve the plan.
Even if the territory is annexed implementation will mostly fall on the SPD government - Prussia included. As Prussia is precisly the state where the three class system will be done away with.

Look im not saying it will be an utopia but I do not see it as a dystopia either. There will be a ton of trouble and problems, and also atrocities. I do not think it will be any way better than OTL at the beginning - most likely slightly worse. Where the real difference comes in is that a nazi takeover in Germany is extremely unlikely. And even if France were to go fascist for a time it would lack the same power and potential to cause suffering on the level of OTL Nazi Germany.
 
Well, that is not exactly certain. Ukraine was in a pretty bad spot at the end of WW1. The revolution had led to the Rada taking power as a socialist but not Bolshevik party and even they didn’t control much of the countryside. The Germans had supported the Rada against the Bolsheviks but then overthrown them and installed the Hetman who they forced to provide them food from a starving nation and then sent their own men out to gather it themselves. Starvation was common in the cities, and far from uncommon in the villages. Rural autarky was the rule, with atamany (basically bandit warlords) and village councils basically controlling the countryside.

If Germany wins then the Hetmanate will likely remain an undeclared vassal of Germany or be replaced with an even more pro-German leadership. Either way, they are not going to regain control of the countryside without a considerable amount of terror. Possibly long term terror. And that is if nobody in Germany gets bigger ideas of how Ukraine can benefit the German people.
I agree that it would be just as bad or likely worse especially in the first years where the Germans are demanding food which would cause prolonged famine and where military opposition to the regime would exist, which would lead to harsh repirsals against civillians which were common of the civil war era. After the Germans stopped requiring food or when they lowered the amounts they expected the government would be able to assert more control over the rural areas since the main reason to oppose the government would be gone.
We would certainly see massacres and public executions in the early years but after this was done the number of killings would go down by a lot. Yes, there would definitely be secret police kidnapping opposition and gulag like prisons but this was no different to what happened under the Soviets before the Holodomor. Then once we get to the 1933-1945 period the situation of Ukrainians would be a lot better than OTL, since while the hetmanate would be a an authoritarian monarchy it would not get close to the amounts of killings done by the Holodomor, hunger plan and the holocaust. 16% of Ukraine died in WW2 alone now if you add the holodomor to that the numbers are extremly high, the hetmanate would have no idealogical reason to do something like that, since while they were oppressive and puppets to Germany they'd still be a Ukrainian nationalist government.
 
Barring a "home by christmas" scenario the war is going to be extremely miserable which will strengthen the SPD massively, and in everyconceivable way. (And even if it is, they will remain the strongest party in the Reichtag):
1. The misery of the war will stregthen their popular support per OTL
A "massive strengthening in every conceivable way" which led to... a whole 3 extra points. Maybe a few more if their support had been waning before the war such that they would have dipped back down to 30% or something like that in 1919. That's certainly explainable by everything I mentioned, but it's not an earth-shattering amount.

And you completely ignore the fact that winning the war will make a big difference in that misery because, unlike IOTL, the blockade will actually end when the war ends instead of going on afterward, and there will be massive spoils to prop up Germany's economy, along with a restarting of trade.
2. Many expected on the goverment side to be betrayed by the socialist when war breaks out. Instead they demontrated their loyalty and that they will not upend sozial order and can be worked with. They can be trusted.
What does that even mean? I never said anything about trust.

1. I said that the SDP is not likely to win the 3 extra points it did IOTL, and might even dip down compared to the previous time, since it seemed to just rock up and down every election, rather than gaining any secure points.
2. I said that the mechanism of German government allows the Prussian Junkers to basically tell the rest of the country to go fuck itself as long as they have a majority in their own territory.
3. I said that Ludendorff and the Junkers, of whom we must not forget the Kaiser is still a member, are guaranteed to use the extraordinary circumstance of the change in electoral laws to push their pet project through before the new laws hit. So the Junkers can leverage that majority just one last time before they give it up.

You're barking up the wrong tree with "trust" here.
Even if the territory is annexed implementation will mostly fall on the SPD government - Prussia included. As Prussia is precisly the state where the three class system will be done away with.
See above and please read what I wrote this time. Numbers 2 and 3, specifically.
 
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Where the real difference comes in is that a nazi takeover in Germany is extremely unlikely.
Agreed. The NSDAP, led by some no-name Austrian corporal, is never going to get off the ground in a victorious Germany. At least for Hitler's lifetime.

But we must remember that Nazism did not arise out of nothing. It had precursors. Some of them were only popular among niche groups, and others had a bigger audience. The Junkers were one of these audiences, and their ideology leaned heavily into German racial superiority over the Slavs, and to their own uniquely Prussian destiny of returning to rule over the Slavs once again - the last time being 1410, when the Teutonic Order was defeated at the First Battle of Tannenberg. Yes they named the WW1 battle after it for that reason. They weren't Nazis - they weren't nearly as antisemitic, for example, even if they were still pretty antisemitic - but a lot of what they believed was unhealthily compatible with Nazism. And there were other ideologies with similar ideas which catered to less aristocratic demographics, but which eventually all coalesced and marinated together to produce Nazism. Even the Kaiser, a Junker, was greatly influenced by those more vulgar ideologies. These ideologies had started appearing around the mid-19th century, and they were getting more popular and mainstream with every decade.

That is ultimately the biggest danger: not that Germany will fall to Nazism in a day, but that race ideologies will always remain in the Overton window, growing ever more acceptable as time passes, until eventually they just become part and parcel of German democracy.

And of course, that's just what's going on in Germany. Meanwhile, over in Ober Ost, the Junkers are not restrained by the SDP and have full freedom to do whatever they want.
 
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You mean like how these same Germans had a civil war against the Nazis?

You [recruits] have sworn loyalty to me. You have only one enemy and that is my enemy. In the present social confusion, it may come about that I order you to shoot down your own relatives, brothers or parents but even then you must follow my orders without a murmur. - Speech (23 November 1891), quoted in Michael Balfour, The Kaiser and His Times (London: Penguin, 1975), p. 158
You can't brush away, that the WW 1 experience was a great disillusionment for any participants in the war even the victorious ones. So, yes there will be a call for internal change in post WW1 Germany and if that call is ruthlessly denied, i wouldn't exclude a civil war as a possibility, where a victory of conservative powers is certainly not guaranteed. There were in OTL a lot of supporters for the Republic, which we may forget because our narrative is so focussed on the opponents, who were victorious in the end. But if i look at number of members of Veteranorganisation Reichsbanner Schwarz-Rot-Gelb then that number outnumbered by far those of Stahlhelm, the SA and Roter Frontkaempferbund combined (and those are even the numbers in the early 30's, when the Republic was in full decline).
 
Well, that is not exactly certain. Ukraine was in a pretty bad spot at the end of WW1. The revolution had led to the Rada taking power as a socialist but not Bolshevik party and even they didn’t control much of the countryside. The Germans had supported the Rada against the Bolsheviks but then overthrown them and installed the Hetman who they forced to provide them food from a starving nation and then sent their own men out to gather it themselves. Starvation was common in the cities, and far from uncommon in the villages. Rural autarky was the rule, with atamany (basically bandit warlords) and village councils basically controlling the countryside.

If Germany wins then the Hetmanate will likely remain an undeclared vassal of Germany or be replaced with an even more pro-German leadership. Either way, they are not going to regain control of the countryside without a considerable amount of terror. Possibly long term terror. And that is if nobody in Germany gets bigger ideas of how Ukraine can benefit the German people.

I agree that Ukraine won't have easy times through rest of 1910's and 1920's. There would be lot of famines and insurgency and terrorism by remaining socialists, anarchists, bolsheviks and nationalists. Famines probably would cease being major problem when Germany can get enough of foreign trade back and re-start its own food pruduction. And there is going to be lot of brutal violence against anti-German groups.

But still I am still sure that all of that would pale that what Ukrainians had experience in OTL like Holodomor, WW2, harsh russification attempts and that current war.
 
I agree that it would be just as bad or likely worse especially in the first years where the Germans are demanding food which would cause prolonged famine and where military opposition to the regime would exist, which would lead to harsh repirsals against civillians which were common of the civil war era. After the Germans stopped requiring food or when they lowered the amounts they expected the government would be able to assert more control over the rural areas since the main reason to oppose the government would be gone.
We would certainly see massacres and public executions in the early years but after this was done the number of killings would go down by a lot. Yes, there would definitely be secret police kidnapping opposition and gulag like prisons but this was no different to what happened under the Soviets before the Holodomor. Then once we get to the 1933-1945 period the situation of Ukrainians would be a lot better than OTL, since while the hetmanate would be a an authoritarian monarchy it would not get close to the amounts of killings done by the Holodomor, hunger plan and the holocaust. 16% of Ukraine died in WW2 alone now if you add the holodomor to that the numbers are extremly high, the hetmanate would have no idealogical reason to do something like that, since while they were oppressive and puppets to Germany they'd still be a Ukrainian nationalist government.
So I will go ahead and acknowledge that the specifics of the Holodomor are unlikely. The average Ukrainian villager has probably dodged that particular bullet.

However, the potential for Ukraine to be, and remain, a basket case are considerably greater than I think you are considering. The Hetmanate effectively represented the traditional elites of the Russian Empire days (aristocrats, Orthodox clergy, land owners ect.). Its Cabinet was largely made up of Tsarists, Russian speakers and Slavophiles. It’s officers were largely Imperial Russian officers with little connection or care for the Ukrainian state that were basically just riding out the hard times there.

In the mean time, in the urban core you have the Ukrainian nationalists left over from the Rada (and who would form the Directory after overthrowing Skoropadsky IOTL). They see the Hetman as being a collaborator and a traitor on one hand, An Imperial Russophile and autocrat on another, and hate him for both. He basically represents the pre-war elites that the Rada was formed to tear down. Among other things these guys managed to assassinante the German General in charge of CP troops in Ukraine. Their vision of Ukraine is varied but generally seemed to be a national communist regime.

You also have increasing numbers of White and Bolshevik troublemakers looking to further their cause.

In the countryside you have even more of a mess. Each village is effectively under local sovereignty of village councils or soviets (the term used and the side supported actually mean very little, the organization is largely the same regardless). The peasants are not a homogeneous voice but almost all of them desire a legitimization of the land seizures they have already undertaken in the initial revolutions. This is basically antithetical to Skoropadskyi’s regime since his support largely comes from those that the peasants took the land from.

Connected to these local institutions are the atomany. Basically bandit warlords who are either connected to and supported by or can enforce their will on certain village territory. There are a large and ever changing number of them. Some are purely local and act almost as local militia leaders. Some are out and out bandits with a thin film of local legitimacy . Some are vaguely aligned with either the Bolsheviks or the Anarchists and protect local soviets while persecuting those seen as kulaks or outsiders. Some are variously connected to or bought off by either the nationalists or the Hetmanate.

The Black movement is active at this time. Effectively being a collection of atomany, they have considerable support from the peasants in their areas, support local soviets without a central authority over them, and are willing to fight Nationalists, Hetmanate troops, CP soldiers, Whites, Cossacks, other local groups, and even the Bolsheviks (though they would later join with them for a time).

There are also displaced or oppressed groups of “kulaks” who have taken to banditry or joined together for mutual protection. Things were so bad that even some of the zealously pacifist Mennonites formed defensive militias (a move that was generally seen, now and then, as a failure of faith on the part of those joining). There were at least 5000 of them armed at one point. Other local groups of affected peasants would form their own militias.

You also have the Don Cossacks. Quite a number of them were operating in eastern Ukraine or would cross over from the Don Host areas. They were largely affiliated with the White movement but were possessed of their own priorities and would happily fight all comers if they were in their way.

Basically, the Herman did not have either the force or the legitimacy to stabilize his rule in all of these areas. Even keeping control of the urban areas from the Nationalists would be a struggle.

Which means that either Ukraine remains a divided and failed state for some time after the war (likely decades without intervention) or somebody puts a lot of blood and treasure into stabilizing it and keeping it under control.That will probably have to be Germany. Or the Bolsheviks if Germany decides it doesn’t care. If it’s the former then they will need to basically beat the bulk of the populous into giving up a measure of the land they have seized for themselves, which could give a body count not far off the OTL. If it’s the later the exact same situation could come about as OTL.

Plenty of potential for things to be equally terrible as OTL, is what I am saying. And that ignores the death and destruction that could come from renewed Soviet or White Russian invasion or German attempts to make Ukraine a German colony as some more extreme plans called for at the time.
 

kham_coc

Banned
You mean like how these same Germans had a civil war against the Nazis?

You [recruits] have sworn loyalty to me. You have only one enemy and that is my enemy. In the present social confusion, it may come about that I order you to shoot down your own relatives, brothers or parents but even then you must follow my orders without a murmur. - Speech (23 November 1891), quoted in Michael Balfour, The Kaiser and His Times (London: Penguin, 1975), p. 158
Yes, because 1891 Or 1944 - is the same as 1919.
 
A "massive strengthening in every conceivable way" which led to... a whole 3 extra points. Maybe a few more if their support had been waning before the war such that they would have dipped back down to 30% or something like that in 1919. That's certainly explainable by everything I mentioned, but it's not an earth-shattering amount.
Yeah but if we also count the USPD than about 45% voted sozialist in OTL 1919 and thats 11% more than in 1912.
And you completely ignore the fact that winning the war will make a big difference in that misery because, unlike IOTL, the blockade will actually end when the war ends instead of going on afterward, and there will be massive spoils to prop up Germany's economy, along with a restarting of trade.
Will it though? Look at OTL UK and France. Was there everythin g sunshine and roses after the war? Because I dont think so. Neither would it be in Germany.
What does that even mean? I never said anything about trust.
It means that the SPD is much less of a spooky bogeyman for the elit and a lot of people who would have declared every sozialist a godless traitor and revolutionary (and deployed the army happily against them) will massively reconsider that point and regard them as someone whom you can at least work with. Far from all but a lot.
1. I said that the SDP is not likely to win the 3 extra points it did IOTL, and might even dip down compared to the previous time, since it seemed to just rock up and down every election, rather than gaining any secure points.
2. I said that the mechanism of German government allows the Prussian Junkers to basically tell the rest of the country to go fuck itself as long as they have a majority in their own territory.
3. I said that Ludendorff and the Junkers, of whom we must not forget the Kaiser is still a member, are guaranteed to use the extraordinary circumstance of the change in electoral laws to push their pet project through before the new laws hit. So the Junkers can leverage that majority just one last time before they give it up.

You're barking up the wrong tree with "trust" here.

See above and please read what I wrote this time. Numbers 2 and 3, specifically.
The really big change wont be on the national level but in Prussia - the power of the junkers in the elections will be broken with the 3 class voting system out. And again, even if they manage to force the annexation of the polish border strip as a final act, ethnic cleansing and resettlement cant happen owernight. So the SPD taking ower likely cant stop the annexation but it absolutely can stop or even prevent ethnic cleansing and resettlement.

I would also point out that all the territories that Geremany lost OTL would be still part of the Empire - meanng mostly polish areas. They also wont be ever voting for any kind of german nacionalists.
 
But we must remember that Nazism did not arise out of nothing. It had precursors.
...
That is ultimately the biggest danger: not that Germany will fall to Nazism in a day, but that race ideologies will always remain in the Overton window, growing ever more acceptable as time passes, until eventually they just become part and parcel of German democracy.

And of course, that's just what's going on in Germany. Meanwhile, over in Ober Ost, the Junkers are not restrained by the SDP and have full freedom to do whatever they want.

Bingo.

Aside from straightforward revanchism, there were lots of factors behind the rise of the Nazis and their actions, such as:
  • fear of revolution and the increasing willingness of the upper classes to resort to extreme "measures" to stave it off
  • general war trauma and disillusionment by veterans and others - and as we saw in OTL, people can be just as easily disillusioned by a victory that does not meet their expectations...
  • the increased willingness to transplant colonial ideas and practices into an European context
Most of these factors are definitely not avoided in a CP victory scenario.

So if we don't get the Nazis of OTL, what do we get? No one can say for sure, but things aren't looking good.
  • The Ottoman ruling party, the Ittihadists, could in many ways be considered the first European fascist government - and the genocide they committed against Armenians and others, which would be even more brutal in most CP victory scenarios, was the inspiration for Hitler and several others.
  • Austria-Hungary committed atrocities on a massive scale and had Generalplan Ost-like ideas bouncing around its ministries and staffs, even if nobody was insane enough to fully implement them (...yet).
  • Germany planned the Polish border strip and a nasty neo-feudal colonization of the Baltic countries, among other projects. Democratization in Germany is uncertain at best, and it's even less certain that political reform inside Germany would have a large impact on German policies abroad (as one SPD grandee famously answered a Lithuanian delegation when they asked him to intervene against the German army's abuses - "We are socialists only up to Eydtkuhnen [the east Prussian border]")
  • Most of Germany's puppets and allies in Europe - judging by how things started in OTL - were going to be an authoritarian, dysfunctional mess somewhere halfway between a feudal ancien régime and a fascistoid dictatorship.
These are not conditions for development, peace and stability. These are the conditions for brutal repressions and massive bloodbaths.

Now admittedly OTL's 20th century had brutal repressions and bloodbaths too. So who knows whether this scenario would be better or worse in the long run? But judging by the initial conditions, I'm gonna go with "probably worse".
 
Yeah but if we also count the USPD than about 45% voted sozialist in OTL 1919 and thats 11% more than in 1912.
They started off as an anti-war party and thus attracted members from all over the place, before solidifying around a purely Marxist message in 1920, expelling all the non-socialists. And yet they somehow still expanded to 17%, which is coincidentally right when the SDP went down to 21%. And you can easily tell that about half of the USPD's voters from 1919 left the party when it made its message clear, because 17+21 = 38%, which equals out to the SDP's share of the vote in 1919 + a bit.

In 1919, the USPD was a small splinter of the SDP + splinters from other parties.
In 1920, the USPD was a Marxist counter-party to the SDP which had taken almost half its voterbase away.
Will it though? Look at OTL UK and France. Was there everythin g sunshine and roses after the war? Because I dont think so. Neither would it be in Germany.
It needn't be all sunshine and roses. The economy will briefly take a slump around 2 years after the war just like IOTL, that's almost inevitable. But apart from that, it'll be doing far, far better than IOTL.
It means that the SPD is much less of a spooky bogeyman for the elit and a lot of people who would have declared every sozialist a godless traitor and revolutionary (and deployed the army happily against them) will massively reconsider that point and regard them as someone whom you can at least work with. Far from all but a lot.
And? That still doesn't make the Kaiser and his Junker government any less interested in giving up their juicy morsel in Poland if they can help it.
The really big change wont be on the national level but in Prussia - the power of the junkers in the elections will be broken with the 3 class voting system out. And again, even if they manage to force the annexation of the polish border strip as a final act, ethnic cleansing and resettlement cant happen owernight. So the SPD taking ower likely cant stop the annexation but it absolutely can stop or even prevent ethnic cleansing and resettlement.
That really big change is not coming right away, especially if they stall for time by deliberately floating bad ideas for the new system, sorta like how Bethmann-Hollweg's proposal in 1910 was scuppered by "unreasonable" demands by the left that the public found too egregious. Of course, the public will eventually get sick of this shit and the Kaiser will have to give it to them, but that's at least a few years for the Junkers to get their shit started.
I would also point out that all the territories that Geremany lost OTL would be still part of the Empire - meanng mostly polish areas. They also wont be ever voting for any kind of german nationalists.
Much of that land was ethnically mixed between Germans and Poles. That would be 3 million Poles out of 40 million total in the 1910 Prussian census. A noticeable group, to be sure, but not exactly something the Junkers are going to quake in their boots about, especially since they all already vote for Zentrum anyway. And no matter how finished the deportation is by the time the SDP take over, the fewer Poles are around to vote for Zentrum, the better.
 
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So you:
  • smash the liberal democracies,
  • instill 'might is right'
  • eliminate small nations and kill between a sixth to a third of their population
  • have no way of making trusting and lasting international agreements.
How does this not end in something dystopian?
That just sounds like a continuation of millennia of human history. "Might makes Right" and oppression was the historical norm.

From a historical perspective the last century or so was an aberration.
 
So, the focus here is on what German hegemony avoids

Nazism, and probably strangles the Soviets in the cradle as well once the war in the West is over. These are good things

But the horrors of the Nazis and Soviet Communism happened in response to catastrophic military defeat and revolution

What do France and Britain look like in such a scenario? In OTL, they would be the revanchist powers. It's possible France could fall to fascism or communism. It's possible w/ German victory that colonial competition increases and is far more bloody than in OTL post WW1

So it's no guarantee that things end up good
 
I loved the gasping at straws people do to defend OTL/Demonize the CP
I don't see why one must demonize the CP - they were plenty bad on their own!!

The Ottomans were a nasty bunch, and the German plans for post war Europe were not Generalplan Ost but were unlikely to be something that encouraged stability, peace, and respect for human rights

OTL wasn't particularly great either, the entire postwar peace framework was a lot less successful than the Congress of Vienna, let alone the post WW2 era, and led to the rise of extremist totalitarianism
 
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