OK I did indeed. However, it wouldn't change my argument that much. A strong China is not a benefit. At all. And even if its leaning left, it doesn't mean its a strong government. One of the reasons the Japanese had a relatively easy time against the Chinese was that they were fighting eachother before the Japanese came in. I don't see how they magically are united now. Same in the USSR for that matter, or the Raj, or even the British Isles and France. The 20 ties and 30 ties where roaring times for a reason
Our Soviet Union (USSR)
- Thread starter CountofDooku
- Start date
Yup, right now China may be under Wang, but its not internally united yet. But Wang is focusing on consolidation and centralization of his power within China, so the process will take some time.
Good trade relations with united China are and will be very beneficial to USSR in the long term strengthening our economy and industry. But the same goes for China, their economic and industrial potential will grow quickly in the coming years just as USSR. So in relations China - USSR there will be more or less relative balance of power I think. Neither side will be strong enough to dominate the other.
But I agree completely that too strong China is not in interest of USSR. Wang has stated his long-term goal - restoration of rightful place of China. This means simply China as the centrer of the world, and the leader of Asia - Asia under their protection and guidance free of European, American and Russian influence.
Knowing the economic, industrial and demographic potential of China, personally I believe that this country along with USA are the main rivals for USSR in the future. But for China to achieve their goals there is a long road with a lot of obstacles to overcome. Nevertheless I think that Wang for better or worse is a very capable leader, so China has a great future ahead of them.
we have a left wing goverment in power after we throwed out the japanise from the mainland alredy thogh?
(Map taken from abother thread)
USSR takes Mongolia (all of them) as a single puppet (blue), Red directly to the USSR, the yellow bits excluding Japan and Japanese occupied Korea is economic zone where the USSR and China work together. Manchuria was the engine of China's rise and there is no reason for the USSR to prop them up. Trade with them was minimal and they are a big competitor. Owning the base of their rise will make them much more controllable. They can't decline, they don't have the capability to do so.
OTL most of China - especially the urban areas - was ruled by KMT at this time, who are our enemies, while the Chinese Soviet Party owned the rural areas. Helping the Chinese Soviets to build their industrial base and provide high value food production will establish a base to have a better defence against the Japanese, who OTL invaded the area from their Korean puppet in 1931. Or worst case, bring in the Japanese ourselves to the yellow area to keep us safe for longer. Then kick them out together with the Chinese Soviets post WW2 like OTL (but keep the red & blue bits), just give the Chinese Korea as a puppet. Its very historical anyway.
Yup, free and independent Korea is our goal, but its matter for the future. Japan would never allow for it, and any attempt to overthrow their rule over Korea would mean war, for which we are not ready. I think we all remember what happend last time when Russia went unprepared to war against Japan.
Indeed, which is why the Chinese and also we are arming ethnic Korean rebels in Manchuria to free their homeland, officially towards the Japanese these are rebels we fight as much as they do on their side ;D
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BTW @panpiotr Vladivostok is a fine port, ice isn't the biggest issue.
And Port Arthur is owned by the Japanese: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwantung_Leased_Territory
I can't get into my head the Japanese are out of China. That basically means they are very sub par to OTL, and the poor people of Korea are even more screwed
I can't get into my head the Japanese are out of China. That basically means they are very sub par to OTL, and the poor people of Korea are even more screwed
You are right, but Vladivostock still doesn't give us a free and open access to the Pacific Ocean as there is Japan on its way, so there is always a possibility of blocking our only window to the East/Pacific region. Having second port in this direction enhances our power projection capabilities in the region and economic opportunitites. That's why I am so focused on securing more ports for the USSR across the Euroasia (in Persia or China for example) in the future.
Yeah i belive just like with the Black Sea that's the main problem the Russians had with the Japanese Sea; it is Ice Free, but not outright controleld by us for truely free access and after Tsushima I know why that left a bitter taste in their mouth.
With all this talk about naval bases, one thing I think we should discuss and that I know was discussed earlier in the thread is what our Naval doctrine and boats look like.
I think given that we have an increased investment in the aviation industry when it comes to civilian planes, I think we should make it true for our aircraft militarily and we should look into investing into carrier ships as well as converting our eastern fleet into carriers.
(Which is something the British and American did OTL surprisingly early given the relative newness of planes, with the Americans having their first built for purpose carrier in 1920 with the USS Langley, and the Brits having their first converted aircraft carrier back in 1914!: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Langley_(CV-1)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Ark_Royal_(1914) )
Speaking of planes, how does our air force, both civilian with our postal service and travel departments as well as our military one look compared to OTL?
I think given that we have an increased investment in the aviation industry when it comes to civilian planes, I think we should make it true for our aircraft militarily and we should look into investing into carrier ships as well as converting our eastern fleet into carriers.
(Which is something the British and American did OTL surprisingly early given the relative newness of planes, with the Americans having their first built for purpose carrier in 1920 with the USS Langley, and the Brits having their first converted aircraft carrier back in 1914!: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Langley_(CV-1)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Ark_Royal_(1914) )
Speaking of planes, how does our air force, both civilian with our postal service and travel departments as well as our military one look compared to OTL?
Attachments
While it would be a good idea but like the battleships, it'll cost us both resource and time, at least for now. Maybe create the carriers once our first few "Five Year Plan" is completed but for now, we're sticking with Great War-era and interwar ships until then.
As for how the planes will look, it'll probably look similar to OTL but be more of it's own thing from my guess. Even though I still prefer if we kept using the airships since I've been a fan of them a bit more than planes.
Do our character have any attachments in military procurement? Because iirc OTL Stalin like to interject in smallarm procurement.
If you are asking whether Rykov interjects in the army affairs same as OTL Stalin, then I think that he is more hands-free approach to this matter. I guess he decides the overall strategy and use of the Red Army, but leaves micromanagment to the experts.
That good… that mean the 1938 rifle trial can actually pick the decent svt38 instead of the avs38 failure. No Stalin :v
Shanghai Riots and Shanghai Crisis
Regarding the Chinese Russian Border Tensions, the majority in the Soviet Union decides to keep the local borders with China for now, but some suggest liberating Korea trough Guerrilla Warfare from Japan and then keeping it secure from further future Chinese and Japanese influence and dominance, in favor of their own Russian one in the Far East. While the Uncertainty Principle is formulated by Werner Heisenberg employed at the Niels Bohr Institute for Physics at the University of Copenhagen, tensions rise within a week in Europe, as a military coup nearly takes over the Portuguese government in Lisbon, but is put down before anything serious can happen and the Portuguese government and nation state threatened. Fearful of their citizens in anti-Foreigner riots, the British land troops in Shanghai during anti-Westerner/ anti-European/ anti-Colonial and anti-Imperial riots in the city, clashing with local militias, police and army forces and all in between, nearly creating a local battle in between these various factions that triggers a British-Chinese War. In Yugoslavia meanwhile an Earthquake of a magnitude of 6.1 kills around 50 people and leads to intensive destruction's across the country. In Shanghai the presence of British troops leads to an overall general strike and calls for drastic and rash actions by the Chinese government, further escalating and the Shanghai International Settlement were most foreigners live is threatened. Fearing memories like during the Boxer Rebellion before, which is why the local British, Australians, New Zealanders, Canadians, Newfoundlanders, South Africans, Americans, Danes Dutch, French, Spanish, Portuguese, Italians and Germans, as well as their overseas governments are cornered during the Shanghai Riots and Shanghai Crisis. The Clara Bow silent romantic comedy It, which would popularise the concept of the It girl distracts the public a bit, but under guidance of the radio frequencies regulating U.S. Federal Radio Commission, the later Federal Communications Commission the public is well informed about the tensions and problems in Shanghai all the way across the Pacific.
The Shanghai Riots:
A) aid the evacuation of non-Chinese Foreigners
B) force British Forces to leave
C) Replace British with League of Nation Forces to stabilize the Situation until peace returns of the foreigners leave the Chinese Shanghai International Zone
D) diplomatically support China, but condemn to outright violent outbursts against foreign civilians
E) the time is now, reclaim all foreign coastal treaty cities and other areas taken from the Chinese
NOTE: To avoid your answer to be seen as spam, please write a short sentence to each (that you chose A, B, C, or maybe why you choose so, maybe that can even convince others to vote the same as you did).
A) aid the evacuation of non-Chinese Foreigners
B) force British Forces to leave
C) Replace British with League of Nation Forces to stabilize the Situation until peace returns of the foreigners leave the Chinese Shanghai International Zone
D) diplomatically support China, but condemn to outright violent outbursts against foreign civilians
E) the time is now, reclaim all foreign coastal treaty cities and other areas taken from the Chinese
NOTE: To avoid your answer to be seen as spam, please write a short sentence to each (that you chose A, B, C, or maybe why you choose so, maybe that can even convince others to vote the same as you did).