The nine years Queen - Jane grey beheads Mary Tudor and stays on the throne

[aoifeloveskhoward]

“Off with h-her head.”
The young girl was wobbling nervously and her voice was shaky.
“Guilford I don’t know why I did it please! Forgive me!”
Guilford Dudley also didn’t know why his normally sweet and submissive wife would act like that. Beheading a princess of the blood!
However she also had the power to behead him, and the relationship was already frosty, so he had to be on his best behaviour.
“Neither do I Jane. Neither do I.”
Jane fell weeping on the floor. She buried her head in the pillow and the tears ran down her face and onto the linen.
“Jane?”
“Yes”
“I love you.”
“I love you too.”
Guilford shut the door.
“It’s ok Jane. You had to sacrifice some lives to save many more.”
“No it’s not. It’s not right.”

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

“Off with h-her head.”
The young girl was wobbling nervously and her voice was shaky.
“Guilford I don’t know why I did it please! Forgive me!”
Guilford Dudley also didn’t know why his normally sweet and submissive wife would act like that. Beheading a princess of the blood!
However she also had the power to behead him, and the relationship was already frosty, so he had to be on his best behaviour.
“Neither do I Jane. Neither do I.”
Jane fell weeping on the floor. She buried her head in the pillow and the tears ran down her face and onto the linen.
“Jane?”
“Yes”
“I love you.”
“I love you too.”
Guilford shut the door.
“It’s ok Jane. You had to sacrifice some lives to save many more.”
“No it’s not. It’s not right.”

while this is a very sympathetic portrayal of Jane, it also leans very much into the "eroticized" image of her that emerged in the 19th century. Jane was every inch a Tudor and given that she regarded Catholics as "imps of the Devil" and their churches as "stinking kennels of Satan" OTL, and went to her death proudly asserting that she was the queen*, I doubt she would've had any problems with signing Mary's death warrant. Certainly far less than Mary had signing Jane's or Elizabeth had signing Mary Stuart's.

*Jane refused to recant her position when Mary offered her mercy. And she refused to read/write the traditional formula for a traitor's execution "I come here to die, I am guilty, pray for the king/queen, amen". Hence why Mary made it a private execution- not because she feared Jane saying that in public but because of Jane's actual final statement which was an exhortation to holy war until Catholicism was torn out root and branch (i.e. the one life [Jane] weighed against the many [England's population])

 

[DrakeRlugia]

I agree with Kellan here. It also seems to lean into the trope of Jane being completely under the thumb of Northumberland. She took the crown reluctantly. Jane wasn't necessary 'sweet and submissive.' After she took the throne, Guildford wished to be named king, but she refused to do so, telling him that if he became king, it would be through her and by an act of Parliament. When she offered him the Dukedom of Clarence, he answered that he didn't want to be a duke, but king.

When the Duchess of Northumberland found out about this, she was furious and forbade Guildford to sleep with his wife, and commanded him to leave the tower and go home. Jane, in turn, commanded him to stay by her side.

Council meetings were presided over by Guildford, and he apparently dined in regal style and was addressed as king by his servants, but that was all.

Jane Grey remaining queen is definitely an interesting idea, but there are many factors to consider. I think if Mary had been captured, there would be no hesitation from Jane in signing her death warrant: either Mary must die, or Jane must die, because Mary will remain a locus of opposition to her potential reign as one of Henry VIII's children. Mary's support to the throne was because she was a Tudor: her Spanish blood had little to do with it, and her Catholicism divided people. Her position as the legitimate heiress following Edward's death was what mattered most. There will be an immediate need to legitimize Edward VI's Device for the Succession to prevent further issues, through Parliament likely.

But sooner or later, Jane will become older and may not be content to be kept in a gilded cage by the men who raised her to the throne.

 

[Bodhidharma]

What about Queen Elizabeth, she is still around. If Jane kills Mary she will have to kill Elizabeth as well. The outraged Marian supporters will rally to Elizabeth. There is also Scottish claim supported by France. Habsburgs may even support, atleast neutral to any French/Scottish claim on execution of their cousin.

Hostage Mary is much better than dead Mary, same reason Mary kept Elizabeth alive.

 

[DrakeRlugia]

What about Queen Elizabeth, she is still around. If Jane kills Mary she will have to kill Elizabeth as well. The outraged Marian supporters will rally to Elizabeth. There is also Scottish claim supported by France. Habsburgs may even support, atleast neutral to any French/Scottish claim on execution of their cousin.

Hostage Mary is much better than dead Mary, same reason Mary kept Elizabeth alive.

Elizabeth's situation is more complicated because of her dubious legitimacy. Mary and Edward VI were indisputably legitimate, because Edward VI was born after Catherine of Aragon's death. I agree that Elizabeth will likely gain some support for her cause, but her most likely source of support, the Protestants, have throne their support behind Jane. If the Device of the Succession can be legitimized, that relegates Elizabeth into the shadows. She'll likely have to be held under strict guard; if there is a revolt that tries to put her upon the throne, that gives Jane perfect justification to get rid of her too. It's hard to say what would happen to her if Jane holds the throne; she can't be married abroad, as that gives her someone who can possibly assist her. Perhaps the Tudor route in dealing with the Yorkist princesses à la Henry VII, where they were married to minor gentry far below their station.

As for Mary and Elizabeth: they had a complicated relationship, and Mary's relationship with her sister was very difficult. When they were young, Mary was warm and loving towards Elizabeth, and perhaps they bonded over their shared misery of being discarded. But Elizabeth was still the daughter of the 'whore' Anne Boleyn, and her religious inclinations differed from Mary's. Being pushed away and your mother being discarded and abandoned would be psychologically difficult for any child, and Mary endured it. Just as Elizabeth endured her own mother being executed and being tossed aside, which perhaps played a role in her own distaste of marriage, along with the Catherine Howard affair. Certainly, Elizabeth could've been executed during Mary's reign: her councilors attempted to do so during one of Mary's illnesses, if I recall. It's hard to say why Mary paused on executing Elizabeth, certainly she knew that Elizabeth was Protestant, and despite her pleading and protestations to try and keep England Catholic and bring Elizabeth to the Catholic faith, it didn't work. Elizabeth also had a powerful ally in Philip II, Mary's husband. He didn't want Elizabeth to be executed, because lord knows what happen if she did die: there were the numerous claimants through Mary Tudor, and of course there was Mary, Queen of Scots, the rightful successor following traditional succession laws. Given her education in France + marriage to François II, Philip II had no desire to see the Queen of Scots become Queen of England and pull England under French influence. Better to keep Elizabeth around, and hope that she maintains friendly relations with Spain. Or in Philip II's case, hope she might agree to marry him.

I know there were also attempts to marry Elizabeth outside the country; the Duchess of Lorraine visited England in 1557 or so, trying to arrange a marriage with the Duke of Savoy. That failed as well.

 

[aoifeloveskhoward]

while this is a very sympathetic portrayal of Jane, it also leans very much into the "eroticized" image of her that emerged in the 19th century. Jane was every inch a Tudor and given that she regarded Catholics as "imps of the Devil" and their churches as "stinking kennels of Satan" OTL, and went to her death proudly asserting that she was the queen*, I doubt she would've had any problems with signing Mary's death warrant. Certainly far less than Mary had signing Jane's or Elizabeth had signing Mary Stuart's.

Thanks. I didn’t know that yet so I had to make some assumptions on her behaviour. I also tried to put a lot of impressionable child here as she was only 16.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

The outraged Marian supporters will rally to Elizabeth.

why? To most of them, Elizabeth was a bastard.

There is also Scottish claim supported by France. Habsburgs may even support, atleast neutral to any French/Scottish claim on execution of their cousin.

Northumberland was doing a deal with France during the "9 days". Spain will protest- as they did at the execution of Mary, QoS- but Karl V isn't going to risk a war with England when he has no alternative candidate (Cardinal Pole? not likely)

erhaps the Tudor route in dealing with the Yorkist princesses à la Henry VII, where they were married to minor gentry far below their station.

William Pickering was the "bookie favourite" per the ambassadorial correspondence of the Venetian ambassador to the court at Brussels:

concerning her marriage, it still continued to be said that she would take that Master Pickering, who, from information received by me, is about 36 years old, of tall stature, and handsome, and very successful with women, for he is said to have enjoyed the intimacy of many and great ones. On the accession of Queen Mary he went into voluntary exile, but was subsequently recalled by her, and she commissioned him to go to Germany to raise a German regiment, as he did, and took it to the sea-side, precisely at the time of the rout of M. de Termes at Gravelines; after which, with the Queens consent, he took the regiment for himself and, without crossing over to England, remained in Flanders, where he fell ill for a time, but has now recovered.

This is the first mention by name of the soldier and diplomat Sir William Pickering (1516/7 – 1575), described in John Strype’s Annals of the Reformation (1709) as ‘the finest gentleman of his age, for his worth in learning, arts and warfare.’ Pickering was a former knight marshal to King Henry VIII and MP for Warwick. Under King Edward VI (1537 – 1553) he was Ambassador to France. He was a friend of Sir Thomas Wyatt (c.1512 – 1554) who was executed for rebelling against Queen Mary on her marriage to Philip of Spain. Pickering was accused of trying to raise ships in France to stop Philip’s fleet from arriving in England, and was said to have been deep in discussion with Elizabeth before the rebellion was launched. He stayed abroad until 1555 when he was back in favour with Mary, thanks to his friends at Court. Queen Mary sent him on a diplomatic mission shortly before she died, leaving him to make his way home again watched by all Europe.

What it neglects to add is that Pickering's sister is married to Sir Francis Weston, Pickering's mother was Jane Lewknor, who married Sir Arthur Pole as her second husband. Pickering is not a Plantagenet himself, but he has connections into the outer-fringes of the family. It was deemed such a concern that there was talk that the earl of Arundel planned to sell his estates and take ship abroad if the marriage came to pass.

 

[aoifeloveskhoward]

any problems with signing Mary's death warrant

And also don’t worry. I have a reason why Jane is feeling low!

 

[aoifeloveskhoward]

For her execution, Mary wore purple velvet, a way of stating she was the rightful queen of England.
Jane kept the spectators low, fearing she would try and state her innocence. Jane was also right.
At her beheading, Mary gave her gold collar, given it her by her mother to Eustace Chapuys.
“Please keep it in the Spanish bloodline. And my dear mothers relatives.”
She took off her overdress, and gave it to a young girl, who was watching as a tower resident.
“Give this to your mother.”
The young girl nodded and walked away.
Mary’s petticoat was Scarlet and her hair was tied into a neat bun.
“I forgive you.” She said to the executioner as she fumbled with a prayer book. After about two minutes she laid her head on the block and stretched her arms out.
The axe fell.
“Shes pregnant.”
Doctor Wendy had only just announced that news to Guildford before he started smiling.
“I will have a king to rule England or a fair princess.”
Jane wanted a boy for Englands sake, but secretly hoped for a girl. She would be just like her mother and be the most educated princess in Europe.
Elizabeth was also quite happy for her coisin Jane although it would mean she was a lot less likely to get the throne. She remembered how happy she was when Edward was born and how tiny he was.
Guildford also knew he couldn’t sleep with Jane while she was pregnant but felt unsure. His predecessors had taken mistresses, but they were kings, not king consort, whatever Jane said. In the end his mother persuaded him to take a mistress. And he chose one of the highest blood.
Elizabeth was flattered to receive that letter from
Guildford, but also knew this could cost her life.
When Guildford came to the tower though, she coudn’t help herself. And that was why she was gutted to hear who she was marrying.

 

[aoifeloveskhoward]

A: Henry Fitzroy lives. Half sibling though which is a con.
B: Robert Dudley. Not sure if related or the king though.

 

[isabella]

A: Henry Fitzroy lives. Half sibling though which is a con.
B: Robert Dudley. Not sure if related or the king though.

Henry Fitzroy was far older than her and married more or less when Elizabeth was born. He could have a son born around 1537/8 who would be a good match for Elizabeth (IOR Jane Grey) but he would be the next-in-line after Edward VI NOT Mary in the Third Act of Succession, meaning who neither Mary or Jane would be Queen if Fitzroy lived or had a son.
Robert Dudley is already married at this point and he is one of the elder brothers of Guildford…

 

[aoifeloveskhoward]

Henry Fitzroy was far older than her and married more or less when Elizabeth was born. He could have a son born around 1537/8 who would be a good match for Elizabeth (IOR Jane Grey) but he would be the next-in-line after Edward VI NOT Mary in the Third Act of Succession, meaning who neither Mary or Jane would be Queen if Fitzroy lived or had a son.
Robert Dudley is already married at this point and he is one of the elder brothers of Guildford…

You’ve given me an idea thank you loads

 

[aoifeloveskhoward]

Dedicated to Isabella for giving me this idea
Elizabeth and William Fitzroy were actually quite similar, leading to both their outrage.
They were both smart and quick witted, they both did what it took to survive, and were bitter about what they lost, Elizabeth her title and mother and William his legitimacy and being in line to the throne.
Yet Elizabeth still continued her relationship with Guildford, and Elizabeth soon became pregnant. The question of who was the father preyed on Elizabeth’s mind, so much that she broke off the relationship with the king.
Jane’s baby was growing fast, and she was fearing that the baby would become too much to handle for her body.

 

[aoifeloveskhoward]

Jane was sick of being pregnant. She wanted a baby, but she was irritated at not being able to ride, dance or travel.
Guildford wanted to name the baby after him but Jane insisted it was not a name for a king.
Jane wanted to name it Bessie.

 

[aoifeloveskhoward]

What name the baby
Give ur boy and girl names u want

 

[Mildtryth]

What name the baby
Give ur boy and girl names u want

Henry or John if it's a boy are more likely, since they were their fathers' names.

If it's a girl, i'd bet on Catherine, Mary or Frances.

 

[DrakeRlugia]

For a son: Henry, after Henry VIII or Jane's father, the Duke of Suffolk. John could work as well, after the Duke of Northumberland. Maybe Edward, to honor Edward VI. But I'd give Henry or John more precedence.

For a daughter: Margaret, Catherine, Mary in honor of Jane's grandmother, Mary Tudor; or even Elizabeth in honor of Elizabeth of York, Jane (in honor the queen herself or the Duchess of Northumberland).

 

[aoifeloveskhoward]

On the twelfth of July, Mary and John were born. It was a difficult birth, and Jane nearly died multiple times.
Jane loved her children with all her heart, and especially Mary. Guildford felt pity on John with Janes obvious favouritism and took control in his sons life.
Jane wanted to nurse her own children (Especially Mary) but the wet nurse forbid it and so they argued in which the wet nurse got turned away.

 

[aoifeloveskhoward]

Mary and her governess, Kate Willohby had just taken a walk in the garden when the news came.
"The Queen has given birth to triplets. She requires the princess Mary immediately."
Mary toddled off without a second glance to see her beloved mother but Kate looked at her anxouly.
That same day Mary came out beaming to her father and brother, who wriggled impatiently.
"Mummy's had Three Babies! Two are girls so I have friends and one is johns friend."
Jane was so delighted she let Mary name one of the girls. She delibrated long and hard, and eventually chose Elisabeth because it was her faveroite aunties name.
So little Elisabeth (Elise) Henry and Katherine, after Katherine parr were born on the anniversary of Jane seymours death.
Elise and Henry were sent off to live with Mary and John while Kat stayed with her mother. Kat was the smallest and most frail. She was as light as a feather and her clothes took longest to make.
Mary soon discovered that Elise was quite boring and left her alone. She had a fiance born at the same time as Elise so he piqued her intrest.
"Is he tiny or big? Does he cry or sleep more? Is he talking?"
Charles of cleves was next in line to the throne of cleves and a delicate child who Mary already loved.

 

[aoifeloveskhoward]

Queen Jane__________________ ___m___________________ guildford dudely




princess Elise
Princess Mary twin with Prince Henry sib with Princess Kat sib with Prince john
(Will probably marry
charles of cleves