I rather disagree, at least pending an explanation from the poster.
Until Every Drop of Blood Is Paid: A More Radical American Civil War
- Thread starter Red_Galiray
- Start date
Given that it's a direct, textual quote, from a scene that bears relation to the topic that was being discussed, and a rather silly and unusual 'insult", I believe it's the only explanation. Of course the user should explain themselves, but the reaction still strikes me as too trigger-happy, respectfully.
FWIW, the user the kicked member responded to "liked" the post that got him kicked.
Action has been revered following explanation from poster.
In the future please make comment/questions regarding actions in the "Kick/Ban" thread.
Thanks.
Sorry about that, guys. Anyway, something that's been on my mind about this TTL: Given that IOTL the manpower of the US Army went from nearly a million in 1865 to around 25,000 within a decade of Appomattox, will TTL's Army undergo such a contraction or will it be significantly larger for the rest of the 19th Century?
Some demobilization is inevitable, and of course, desirable. The Northern people just won't stand to have their boys still down South when they want them home. So the professional Army will probably still be heavily cut down - more than the OTL numbers but around 50K to 100K. The interesting thing is that, OTL, the bastard Andrew Johnson disbanded many Black regiments because the rebel asked him to (at the same time as they raised their own militias). Lincoln won't say yes to such requests. So the US Army may be as high as half Black, especially around the Black belt.
Then there's the men that strandle the line: Union League militias and Gendarmerie/National Guard units. These are the guys that will do the actual brunt of occupation, enforcement, and fighting against terrorism. The North would probably still find it hard to mobilize a truly massive amount of them, so max 50K men? And the militias would be mostly Black and White Unionist veterans organizing in reaction to Ku Klux activity.
I do remember that Western men supported inflation, as in, the printing of greenbacks. But the idea is somewhat bizarre-sounding to us modern people, where inflation is almost universally seen as something bad. So, if I'm understanding correctly, since the idea of fiat money was not there yet (nor would it be until Nixon) they believed money had to be backed by something so they turned to silver, because it was more abundant.
There can be very interesting butterflies regarding the wider world, indeed! I'm not saying I'm doing it, but an idea that has always intrigued me is a Russia-US-Germany alliance going up against the UK and France.
Really interesting! Many Irish veterans of the Civil War explicitly believed that the next big step in human freedom would be the US liberating them. In many Irish songs you can hear about the Irish soldiers warning "John Bull" that they are next. So it kind of links directly to the Civil War.
I did post it myself!
The different laws would give Congress far more power to force them to conform to American laws, and the expanded National State could actually turn repressive against them. After all, for a time Mormons were seen as a dangerous sect.
That reminds me that I once had an interesting discussion with @DanMcCollum regarding Catholicism within Black communities during Reconstruction. Could an influx of immigrants result in much stronger Catholicism in the Southern US?
Yes, I did make a reference to these problems in a side-story where a soldier is mentioned to suffer "war madness." We may see an earlier understanding of PTSD and the psychological issues of individual soldiers as a result of how much wider this trauma has been. At the very least, this is the kind of trauma that will define the US for decades - like how WW2 defined Germany.
Incidentally, one thing I do know is that the inflation debate played a key part in the transition of the Republican Party from a movement of activists identified with "free labor" to the movement of the respectable middle class and business interests. The breaking point, traditionally, has been Grant's veto of the Inflation Bill. Based on that, I'm guessing Populists and the "Social Republicans" are probably going to support inflation and bimetalism - yet another fracture point.
I can see yet another Southern Homestead Act offering free/very low prize land in the South. Much less desirable than Western land, but maybe some of those poor immigrants would be willing to snatch it up.
I, uh, meant to depict the Shenandoah as already occupied. Couldn't quite manage it... That tip of Texas is around Brownsville, just across Matamoros. The Union managed to take it during Rosecrans' Texas expedition, to shut off the trade with Mexico. It's a relatively small force, but with Union armies in Louisiana and the Texas border Kirby Smith really can't do much about it. As for Florida... I'm guessing there are just scattered militias there, not any real forces.
As always, I owe a debt of gratitude to you. This will surely come in handy later.
Delany! That's right! He was one of my favorite Reconstruction characters but I completely forgot about his wartime role! Smalls kind of stole his thunder here, but I can definitely see Delany still being appointed an officer after Smalls opened the door, but then being interested in the social and political aspect of Reconstruction. He could be the herald of Black Bureau commissioners - thus far, the Bureaus are mostly White led and staffed.
Sadly, probably right.
It's indeed a blessing that Black people were already legally free at that point. I also remember with disgust that scene in Django. God, Dicaprio really makes for a very detestable villain there.
In many ways they convinced themselves that their authority was a God-given right that no one could question, and thus behaved as tyrants to everyone and anyone. And yes, they are indeed recruiting children. In many areas the actions are more similar to guerrilla gangs forcibly impressing anyone they come across.
Inb4 TTL's Great War pits an alliance of the League of the Three Emperors+USA vs an Anglo-French Entente (with Ottomans not wanting Russia to get Constantinople as their sidekick).
On that note, it is worth pointing out that the first African American Priest, Fr. Augustus Tolton is alive by this point, though still a child. It could be interesting for him to maybe be able to attend seminary in the United States instead of in Rome. Perhaps he's able to keep his parish in Missouri instead of going North to Chicago.
I'm also interested to hear if the Irish Brigade and Fr. Corby has done anything specific of note yet?
Unless you get Russia and A-H to come to an agreement over the Balkans that's going to cause them to be on different sides.
I’m still rather hooked on how the south will look like after reconstruction due to the influx of immigrants. If the homestead act will come through, then this will cause a good increase of those from catholic countries (Spain, Portugal, France, Italy and Croatia) China and the balkans.
I suspect it could. Should we see stronger efforts to spread Catholicism amongst the Freedman population (much to the joy of the Vatican) coupled with an influx of Italian, Spanish and, lets say, French immigrants - you're going to have a situation where Catholicism is going to be a mark of great change; it would be the faith of new comers and the formerly oppressed. I would imagine this could well lead to some nativist backlash in the South from 'old blood' Southrons. But, it would also bolster the position of Archdiocese such as Baltimore and New Orleans which already hold presidence within the American Church heirarchy but which were quickly becoming overshadowed in OTL by New York, Boston, Chicago, etc.
I do so hope you end up incorproating some of what we spoke about into the Reconstruction tale: so many interesting and complicated figures (John Ireland!) and social and political ramifications could come from it
Tolton's life always makes me sad - he overcame so much only to die far younger than he should had. Having him attend an American seminary would be a huge step in the right direction, as would staying in Missouri/Southern Illinois (though I could see him being sent anywhere thoughout the South). Should the American bishops actually follow through on the Vatican's push to Catholicize the Freedman population, I think one thing that is going to be almost essential is the creation of a Black Seminary - probably in New Orleans (or, possibly Birmingham - it's one of the cities of this era that is going to be drawing a fair bit of immigration due to it's industrial character, and so might not be the worst place to construct a Black seminary.). Ethnic seminaries weren't common in the United States, but also not unknown - this same period saw the creation of Sts. Cyril and Methodius Seminary at Orchard Lake, in Michigan for Poles, after all. Indeed, I wonder if the Polish and African-American institutions could draw inspiration from one another.
Interesting story: Fr. Corby was the parish priest of one of the Wisconsin parishes I'm studying for the dissertation (between his presidencies at Notre Dame). I was rather shocked when I found THAT one out. Fascinating man!
Not in and of itself impossible with a PoD in the 1860s. While the major damage was already done with the Crimean War (and Austria's perceived stab in Russia's back), the two powers were broadly willing to cooperate up until 1905 or so, especially as the Russian court was dominated by officials who favoured focusing on Asia ... a strategy that produced two major effects: a rivalry with Great Britain and the humiliation of the Russo-Japanese War. Suffice to say the pan-Slavic faction rose into power afterward.
Serbia and Bosnia weren't really on Russia's radar prior to the 1903 coup in Serbia. Prior to that, Serbia was generally accepted as being in the Austrian sphere. Russia favoured Bulgaria as its main proxy in the Balkans and largely aimed its own aggrandizement (and that of its clients) against the Ottomans. Not that the Austrians cared about the Ottomans getting a reaming, either. They were leery of Russia getting Constantinople, but that was Britain's bugbear, really and Austria was quite happy to make deals with Russia - as they did over Bosnia in 1908. In discussions regarding the annexation, Austria proved quite willing to accept Russia gaining the right to freely transit warships through the Dardanelles (that Austria didn't actually have the rights to grant that and that Britain could veto any changes to the relevant treaties seems to have been missed by the Russians). And that was after the hostilities started increasing between the two.
That said, with a PoD in the 1860s the entire alliance network is up in the air. We're still decades from any of the historical alliances. Might as well see a Franco-German rapprochement. Or a French victory in the Franco-Prussian War. Or an Austrian intervention in said war, triggering a Russian intervention into said war (on Prussia's side) and so on.
So in regards to the demographics of the south besides now being black majority. We're gonna see a potential surge in Catholic immigrants such as Spanish, French and Italian, those from China and dare i say those from the balkans such as maybe Serbs, Croats and Hungarians.
I see Baltimore being where the church focuses most of its initial efforts, at least in terms of infrastructure (seminaries and such) but I feel that it will be the Freedmen population of Louisiana is 100% going to gain the most ground to begin with. They're already at least somewhat familiar with and somewhat part of the church. From there they can begin spreading into the Mississippi River Delta and possibly down into Virginia/The Carolinas, evangelizing to the Freedmen population.In addition, the church could step in to supplement what the bureaus are offering. Similarly, the Catholic school system (which is about to begin growing exponentially to serve the immigrant population) may be able to start desegregated given that the newer immigrants may lack some of the local populace's more overt prejudices. This may well further endear them to the local freedmen and aid in conversions.
This might just increase the embedded anti-Catholicism in the US to a greater extent than OTL.
The South isn't - and probably won't be for a century - black majority, but anyone who even thinks of suggesting something resembling Jim Crow will have US Grant and his merry men show up on their doorstep, heavily armed and wanting to have a talk.
Some parts will be black majority. Such as Alabama, Mississippi and maybe Georgia.
In the short term perhaps, long term, the Catholic population is just going to grow. It's also worth pointing out that the KKK was one of the main anti-Catholic vanguards, given the associations held there between the KKK and the confederacy, it might at least cause Northerners some pause.
Maybe...
Ok, probably not, but still.