WI: A Third Hittite Empire is established.
- Thread starter Phaeton
- Start date
G.Bone said:
How Dare You...I am Shocked and Appaled at this comment and I DEMAND that you take it back(Just Screwing with you G Bone
But what factor would permit an much later Sea Fearing policy by your new Romans? The Power of the Roman Orthodox have much more power in this TL than in OTL? Could the Hittite's keep the Norse Occupied enough for them not to go galavanting off exploring the Northwestern Lands? Also with an smaller Population base will the Hittites or the Romans have an Varangian Gaurd like the Byzantines?
I'm all for seeing how the eastern Hemisphere will progress with the Industrial Revolution without the Rescources of the Americas. But, You are going to have to come up with some more convinet ways of lessening Polution and Deforstation? Or maybe an more Naturalistic view or someone to stand up and say "HEY! What we are doing, is maybe killing this planet!". Because not only with an much more later discovery of Americas...An exhausted Old one might strip the Americas of the Rescources much faster.
And Also an possible way for The Greeks to rise to the occasion once again, is maybe to abolish their Hittite Republic to an Platonic one. Something to ban and unify the Barbarian invaders to the Greek cause?
THE THIRD HITTITE EMPIRE, 700-800 AD
700 AD onward--In India, with the collapse of the Gupta Empire, India has fragmented
into numerous small states, which are ruled by competing Hindu dynasties which vie for
control over India. Dynasties such as the Chalukyas, Pratiharas, Vengis, Gangas, Cholas,
Palas and Rashtrakutas all achieve brief periods of dominance over different parts of the
subcontinent, but none is able to establish a lasting empire. India is thus ill prepared for
the Muslim onslaught that will come in this century.
c. 700 AD onward--The Industrial Revolution continues in the Hittite Empire. Over the
course of this century, machines to automate the spinning of thread and the weaving of
cloth make their appearance, and the first true factories arise as a result. The reduction in
the labor necessary for agriculture, which has been allowed by the invention of reaping,
threshing, and seeding machines, has created a ready work force which can be used to
work in the new factories, as well as allowing the Hittite armies to be rebuilt despite the
great loss of territory in the past century. The steam engine will be dramatically improved,
and will begin to see utilization outside the mining industry for the first time before the
end of the century.
Additionally, this century will see the continued development of that mysterious chemical
formula brought back from China...gunpowder. By the end of the century, the first
military applications of the powder will begin to be made.
Finally, over the course of this century, the Industrial Revolution begins to spread to some
of the states surrounding the Hittite Empire. Hellas, and more importantly Rome, begin
to utilize the new farming technology and steam engines, and Greek and Roman inventors
begin to make their own contributions to the Industrial Revolution.
c. 700 AD--The peoples of Scandinavia have been somewhat influenced by their close
proximity to the Roman Empire, but have retained their essential culture. The Romans
never felt they were worth conquering, and so the only true Germanic culture left in the
world still survives, worshipping their warlike gods, trading and raiding their neighbors,
and squabbling among themselves. Over the previous millennium, the Norse peoples of
Scandinavia have been slowly developing sleek, double-ended boats. These are oar
powered, and carry only small crews, and are capable of only short coastal voyages in
sight of land. Even in these limited craft, the Norse have made themselves a nuisance
with raids on Rome’s northern frontiers. However, about 700 AD, two innovations (the
T-shaped keel, which strengthens the vessel against heavy seas as well as allowing a mast
and sail to be mounted, and the sideboard rudder) are made by Norse shipbuilders in
Norway which will enable the Norse to leave their home waters and become not merely a
nuisance, but a plague. However, it will be a few decades still before these designs are
perfected, and the fearsome Viking longship makes it’s appearance on the world scene.
700 AD onward--The Islamic Church has not been nearly as successful in integrating
conquered peoples into itself as it’s OTL counterpart. Being a Christian sect, rather than
a separate religion, the Islamic Church tends to treat Christians in the conquered
territories as heretics to be persecuted rather than as potential converts to be brought to
the true faith. Non-Christians have fared somewhat better, usually getting the option of
converting or paying a poll tax. But even they have found themselves on the receiving
end of Muslim persecution as mobs of fanatical Muslims riot periodically in various
places. As a result, Muslims remain a minority population outside of Arabia, and the
Caliphate is basically composed of a lot of resentful conquered peoples held down by a
thin smattering of Arab soldiers. The Caliphate is also in political disarray as the new
century dawns. Since the death of Caliph Yazid, the new Caliph, Mu’awiya II, has been
faced with rebellions by various pretenders to the throne, including his cousin, Marwan
and Marwan’s son, Abd al Malik, and Abdul ibn Zubayr, a nephew of Muhammad’s
confidant, Kadijah, all of whom claim to be the true Caliph and have gained large
followings. This will provide an opportunity for enemies of the new faith to rally against
it in the upcoming century.
701 AD--Emperor Flavius I of Rome dies, and is succeeded by his son, Flavius Gaius
Strabo, who reigns as Emperor Flavius II. In this year, Caliph Mu’awiya II is defeated
and captured by the forces of Abd al Malik. He is executed shortly afterward, and Abd al
Malik declares himself the new Caliph.
705 AD--Empress Wu Chou of China is deposed by her son, who restores the T’ang
Dynasty to the throne of China. The son assumes the imperial name of Chung Tsung.
Abd al Malik dies, and is succeeded as Caliph by his son, Al Walid I.
707 AD--The forces of Caliph Al Walid I defeat the army of Abdul ibn Zubayr. Abdul
ibn Zubayr is captured and executed. The last of the major pretenders to the Caliphate is
thus eliminated, and the Marwanate branch of the Ummayad House is firmly established
on the throne. But the flames of rebellion continue to burn in various places throughout
the Islamic realm, and Al Walid will spend most of his reign putting down these
rebellions. This will not preclude some expansion of the Muslim Empire, however, as
later entries will show.
710 AD--Japan's capital is moved from Asuka to Nara, modeled after China's capital
Xian. The Emperor Chung Tsung of China dies, and is succeeded by his brother, who
reigns as the Emperor Jui Tsung.
711 AD--King Hattusili IV of Hatti dies, and is succeeded by his son, who reigns as King
Hantili VI. Hantili, who will go down in history as “Hantili the Redeemer,” and to a
greater extent his son and grandson, will all be strong and resourceful rulers, and the
Hittite Empire will prosper mightily during their reigns. Also at this time, the Arabs
conquer Sindh and Multan (Pakistan).
712 AD--The collection of tales "Kojiki" (record of ancient times) is written in Japan.
The Emperor Jui Tsung of China dies, and is succeeded by his son, who reigns as the
Emperor Hsuan Tsung. Hsuan Tsung will be the last great Emperor of the T’ang
Dynasty, and the T’ang Empire will reach it’s greatest extent under his rule. The Arabs
conquer Transoxiana and convert the Turks to Islam.
715 AD--Caliph Al Walid I dies, and is succeeded by his younger brother, Suleiman.
Suleiman is indebted to political opponents of many of his brother’s most successful
generals, and he attempts to have those generals murdered. However, word of his
nefarious scheme reaches the generals and when he calls them to his capital, they refuse
his summons and instead raise the banner of rebellion. The Caliphate is soon being torn
apart by civil war.
716-730 AD--The War of Redemption: King Hantili VI of Hatti, seeing the chaos which
is reigning within the Caliphate, decides to take advantage of the situation. In the interim
since the death of Caliph Yazid outside the walls of Azatiwataya, the Great Kings of Hatti
have thoroughly reorganized their armed forces, and King Hattusili IV had made an
alliance with the Roman Empire which Hantili has renewed. Thus, in 716 AD, Hantili
and Emperor Flavius II of Rome jointly declare war on the Caliphate. Hittite armies
sweep into Mesopotamia, while Roman armies burst out of Carthage and Tingis in North
Africa. The advance of the Hittite and Roman armies is met with great rejoicing by the
persecuted Christian populations of the Caliphate, and recruits flock to the Hittite and
Roman banners after the Arab armies defending those regions are defeated and destroyed.
In the succeeding years, Hittite armies reclaim Egypt, Kush, and Axum as well, and also
advance into Persia, where they are likewise met with much enthusiasm by a grateful
population. Caliph Suleiman and, after Suleiman is killed in battle, his successors, lead
yearly counterinvasions from the Arabian peninsula, but these are beaten back.
Attempted Hittite invasions of Arabia likewise are repelled by fanatical Arab resistance.
Finally, in 730 AD, a treaty is agreed upon which recognizes the status quo as it exists at
that time. Hatti has restored it’s empire to it’s old limits, and Rome has recovered it’s
north African provinces. Only Arabia remains under the rule of the Caliphs.
718 AD--Caliph Suleiman is killed in battle with the Hittites near Damascus. He is
succeeded by his cousin, Umar ibn Abd al Aziz, who was personally selected by
Suleiman to be his successor, bypassing his own brothers and son. Caliph Umar continues
his predecessor’s efforts to regain the lost lands of the Caliphate.
720 AD--The "Nihon shoki" (history of Japan) is composed. Caliph Umar II dies, and is
succeeded by his cousin, Yazid ibn Abd al Malik, who reigns as Caliph Yazid II. Also in
this year, the Republic of Hellas inflicts a major defeat on the Bulgars, who are forced to
acknowledge the hegemony of Hellas. The Bulgars will be greatly weakened and will
remain relatively quiescent for the remainder of the century.
723 AD--King Hantili VI of Hatti dies, and is succeeded by his son, who reigns as King
Suppiluliuma VII. Suppliluliuma will go down in history as Suppliluliuma “The
Conqueror” after his successful campaigns to recover Egypt, Kush, Axum, and Persia.
Also at this time, Kathmandu is founded in Nepal.
724 AD--Caliph Yazid II dies of tuberculosis. He is succeeded by his brother, Hisham
ibn Abd al Malik, who reigns as Caliph Hisham.
730 AD--Emperor Flavius II of Rome dies, and is succeeded by his son, Marcus Livius
Strabo, who reigns as the Emperor Marcus III. Also in this year, the Khazars raid the
Hittite provinces in the Caucasus. They are repelled, but cause much damage.
730 AD onward--In the aftermath of the War of Redemption, a long period of relative
peace settles over the near east, especially in those lands ruled by the Great Kings of
Hatti. In the lands recently retaken from the Caliphate, Hittite and Roman administrators
begin rebuilding the provinces and integrating them into their respective empires. The
Hittites are helped by their tolerant religious policies, which guarantee everyone,
including those who have converted to Islam, complete freedom of worship. Thus the
local populations are bonded in loyalty to the Hittite King and his benevolent
government. Roman policies, however, are not as tolerant, and Muslims in Roman lands
find themselves the objects of persecution. Fortunately for Rome, the number of Muslims
in their territories is small, so they do not form a major threat to imperial rule in those
regions. Unlike the Hittites, who spend most of the rest of the century consolidating their
gains, the Romans will conduct several military campaigns which will greatly expand the
limits of their empire.
Meanwhile, in Arabia, the power of the Ummayad Caliphs is severely eroded as the faith
of the masses in the divine inspiration of the Caliphs is greatly shaken by the recent
defeats by the “heretic” Hittites and Romans. It will not be long before rivals arise to
challenge them. The resulting internecine fighting will prevent the Arabs from
threatening their neighbors for quite some time. At the same time, in Transoxiana and
the recently conquered regions of Sindh and Multan in India (which were not reached by
the Hittites before the end of the War of Redemption), the Muslim generals who
command in those regions throw off the authority of the Caliph and set themselves up as
independent Kings.
731 AD--Roman mine owners begin to use steam engines to pump water out of their
mines, purchasing them from Hittite sources. Within a short time, Roman firms are
making copies of the machines inside the Roman Empire itself.
732 AD--Sanjaya founds the Sanjaya dynasty in central Java (Indonesia) with capital in
Mataram.
740 AD--The loose confederation of Romano-Celtic warlords and grandees which rules
in Britannia breaks down, and civil war erupts. Emperor Marcus III of Rome sends an
army across the Oceanus Britannicus to “restore order.” Roman troops put down the
rebels, and peace is restored. But the Romans do not leave, and Roman governors and
administrators follow them to the island. Britannia is re-incorporated into the Roman
Empire.
742 AD--Emperor Marcus III of Rome dies, and is succeeded by his son, Julius Licinius
Strabo, who reigns as Emperor Julius I. Emperor Julius will be variously known in
history as “Germanicus” following his conquest of that region and “The Avar Slayer” for
his devastating campaigns against that people.
742-750 AD--Emperor Julius I sends Roman armies into Germania, where they defeat the
disunited local feudal warlords and force their submission to Rome. Germania is
re-incorporated into the Roman Empire.
743 AD--Japan's emperor Shomu founds the temple Todaiji in Nara (largest wooden
building in the world) with a colossal Buddha inside. Caliph Hisham dies, and is
succeeded by his nephew, Walid ibn Yazid, who reigns as Caliph Al Walid II.
744-745 AD--The Chinese Tang dismantle the Gok Turk empire. The Turkic-speaking
Uigurs, thanks to their alliance with the Tang, conquer the Eastern Gok Turk Khanate and
expand from Lake Balkash to Lake Baykal, with capital in Kara-Balgasun. The first
Turkic alphabet appears about this time.
746 AD--Demosthenes of Argos, a Greek inventor living in the Republic of Hellas, builds
on the anonymous innovations of several other inventors and produces the first fully
automated weaving machine. His invention is soon put to use in factories in the Hittite
Empire and Rome.
748-758 AD--Roman campaigns against the Avars. Over a ten year period, Rome
completely crushes these troublesome nomads and annexes their territory. Emperor
Julius I is killed during the campaign, but the conquest is completed by his son, Emperor
Gaius III. Gaius orders the rebuilding of the old Roman defenses on the Oder and
Danube Rivers.
750 AD--The Khazars transfer their capital to Itil (Atil) on the Volga River. Also at
about this time, the Bulgars adopt a Slavic language. Also at this time, the Palas rule
eastern India, the Gurjara-Pratiharas rule the north of India, and the temples of
Bhubaneshwar and Puri are begun in India. Also in this year, Caliph Al Walid II is killed by rebels. No new Caliph is named, as the tribes of Arabia cannot agree on a successor. Arabia fragments into numerous small, tribal states.
751 AD--Battle of Talas River between the forces of the Muslim ruler of Transoxiana and
the T’ang Chinese. The Chinese are victorious, but are soon forced to abandon their
gains by the outbreak of rebellions at home. Also in this year, Korean prime Minister
Kim Tae-song orders the construction of the Buddhist cave temple Sokkuram at Mount
Toham.
753 AD--The Rashtrakutas, a Chalukya dynasty, expand from the Deccan into south and
central India.
755 AD--Emperor Julius I is killed in battle with the Avars. He is succeeded by his son,
Gaius Lucius Strabo, who reigns as the Emperor Gaius III. Also in this year, An Lushan's
rebellion begins in China. The rebellion will span the reigns of three emperors, and cause
as many as 36 million deaths.
756 AD--Emperor Hsuan Tsung of China is forced to flee his capital by rebels
commanded by An Lushan. He is shortly afterward deposed by the army and his son
elevated to the throne, where he reigns as the Emperor Su Tsung. Su Tsung’s reign will
see the beginning of the growth of the power of the court eunuchs and the army generals,
at the expense of the imperial throne, which will eventually lead to the final collapse of
the T’ang Dynasty.
757 AD--The capital of the Chalukyan kingdom in India is moved from Badami to
Pattadakal. Also in this year, the Kailasa temple at Ellora is begun. Quintus Decimus
Lupus, a Roman inventor, invents a mechanical seed sower, which, along with the
threshing and reaping machines already invented, greatly reduces the labor needed for
agriculture.
759 AD--The poetic anthology "Man'yoshu" ("Collection of Myriad Leaves") is written in
Japan.
760 AD--King Suppliluliuma VII of Hatti dies, and is succeeded by his son, who reigns
as King Suppliluliuma VIII. The new king will be noted for his peaceful reign, and many
major building projects will be accomplished. Suppliluliuma will also be a great patron
of learning and invention within the Empire. Also in this year, Indian mystics such as
Santarakshita and Padmasambhava visit Tibet, where they are instrumental in the spread
of Buddhism in that region.
762 AD--The Khazars invade the Transcaucasus, but are defeated by the armies of Hatti.
Emperor Su Tsung of China dies of a heart attack. He is succeeded by his son, who
reigns as the Emperor Tai Tsung.
763 AD--The An Lushan rebellion is finally crushed by armies loyal to Emperor Tai
Tsung. But the T’ang Empire has been left in such a weakened state that the Tibetans
invade and succeed in sacking the Chinese capital of Chang’an (Xian). The Tibetans also
drive the Chinese out of the Tarim Basin, and they will not return during the remainder of
the T’ang Dynasty. This marks the beginning of a long period when China will be beset
by the Tibetans and will suffer several major military defeats at their hands.
768 AD--Hiram of Tyre, a Phoenician inventor living in the Hittite Empire, introduces a
greatly improved version of the steam engine invented by Aristobulos of Ephesus nearly
seventy years before. Steam engines begin to be used outside of the mining industry as a
result.
775 AD--The Rashtrakutas of India are defeated by the Chalukyas, who move the capital
at Kalyani (Mysore). Krishna I of the Rashtrakuta dynasty builds the rock-cut Kailasha
Temple at Ellora. Steam engines are first used to power automated looms in the Hittite
Empire.
777 AD--King Suppiluliuma VIII of Hatti dies, and is succeeded by his son, who reigns
as King Mursili VII. Mursili, like his father, will be a great patron of learning and of
inventors.
778 AD--Sailendra king Dharmatunga begins construction of the Buddhist temple at
Borobudur in Java (Indonesia)
779 AD-- The first Buddhist monastery in Tibet is founded in Samye by Guru Rinpoche/
Padmasambhava. Emperor Tai Tsung of China dies, and is succeeded by his son, who
reigns as the Emperor Te Tsung.
780-781 AD--Arab raids into the Hittite Empire are repulsed by Hittite forces.
781 AD--Tibetans occupy Dunhuang in China.
784 AD--The Japanese Emperor moves the capital to Nagaoka. In India, the Pratihara
king Nagabhata II conquers the sacred capital of the north, Kanyakubja.
788 AD--The Buddhist monk Saicho founds the monastery of Mt. Hiei, near Kyoto,
which will become a vast ensemble of temples.
790 AD--Death of the Emperor Gaius III of Rome. He is succeeded by his son Lucius
Gnaeus Strabo, who reigns as the Emperor Lucius I.
791 AD--The Tibetans capture Kansu, in China. Archidamos of Miletus, a Greek
inventor in the Hittite Empire, develops the first practical artillery rockets using
gunpowder. They are not very accurate, but are destructive and very frightening when
used against troops who have never seen them. The Hittites secretly incorporate them
into their armies forthwith.
794 AD--Emperor Kammu of Japan moves the capital to Heian-kyo (Kyoto).
795 AD--Warpalupis, a Hittite inventor, demonstrates a steam locomotive before King
Mursili VII of Hatti, who is greatly impressed. Mursili recognizes the potential military
value of the invention, which would enable rapid movement of troops and supplies to
areas of the Hittite Empire which are threatened by attack. With his support, construction
begins on a network of rail lines which will link the various cities of the Hittite Empire.
798 AD--King Mursili VII of Hatti dies childless. He is succeeded by nephew, who
reigns as King Tuwatis IV.
800 AD--Licinius Gaius Marcian, a Roman inventor, demonstrates the first
steam-powered boat. It is a small vessel, hardly practical for anything much, but will be
the precursor to much more impressive vessels in the future.
700 AD onward--In India, with the collapse of the Gupta Empire, India has fragmented
into numerous small states, which are ruled by competing Hindu dynasties which vie for
control over India. Dynasties such as the Chalukyas, Pratiharas, Vengis, Gangas, Cholas,
Palas and Rashtrakutas all achieve brief periods of dominance over different parts of the
subcontinent, but none is able to establish a lasting empire. India is thus ill prepared for
the Muslim onslaught that will come in this century.
c. 700 AD onward--The Industrial Revolution continues in the Hittite Empire. Over the
course of this century, machines to automate the spinning of thread and the weaving of
cloth make their appearance, and the first true factories arise as a result. The reduction in
the labor necessary for agriculture, which has been allowed by the invention of reaping,
threshing, and seeding machines, has created a ready work force which can be used to
work in the new factories, as well as allowing the Hittite armies to be rebuilt despite the
great loss of territory in the past century. The steam engine will be dramatically improved,
and will begin to see utilization outside the mining industry for the first time before the
end of the century.
Additionally, this century will see the continued development of that mysterious chemical
formula brought back from China...gunpowder. By the end of the century, the first
military applications of the powder will begin to be made.
Finally, over the course of this century, the Industrial Revolution begins to spread to some
of the states surrounding the Hittite Empire. Hellas, and more importantly Rome, begin
to utilize the new farming technology and steam engines, and Greek and Roman inventors
begin to make their own contributions to the Industrial Revolution.
c. 700 AD--The peoples of Scandinavia have been somewhat influenced by their close
proximity to the Roman Empire, but have retained their essential culture. The Romans
never felt they were worth conquering, and so the only true Germanic culture left in the
world still survives, worshipping their warlike gods, trading and raiding their neighbors,
and squabbling among themselves. Over the previous millennium, the Norse peoples of
Scandinavia have been slowly developing sleek, double-ended boats. These are oar
powered, and carry only small crews, and are capable of only short coastal voyages in
sight of land. Even in these limited craft, the Norse have made themselves a nuisance
with raids on Rome’s northern frontiers. However, about 700 AD, two innovations (the
T-shaped keel, which strengthens the vessel against heavy seas as well as allowing a mast
and sail to be mounted, and the sideboard rudder) are made by Norse shipbuilders in
Norway which will enable the Norse to leave their home waters and become not merely a
nuisance, but a plague. However, it will be a few decades still before these designs are
perfected, and the fearsome Viking longship makes it’s appearance on the world scene.
700 AD onward--The Islamic Church has not been nearly as successful in integrating
conquered peoples into itself as it’s OTL counterpart. Being a Christian sect, rather than
a separate religion, the Islamic Church tends to treat Christians in the conquered
territories as heretics to be persecuted rather than as potential converts to be brought to
the true faith. Non-Christians have fared somewhat better, usually getting the option of
converting or paying a poll tax. But even they have found themselves on the receiving
end of Muslim persecution as mobs of fanatical Muslims riot periodically in various
places. As a result, Muslims remain a minority population outside of Arabia, and the
Caliphate is basically composed of a lot of resentful conquered peoples held down by a
thin smattering of Arab soldiers. The Caliphate is also in political disarray as the new
century dawns. Since the death of Caliph Yazid, the new Caliph, Mu’awiya II, has been
faced with rebellions by various pretenders to the throne, including his cousin, Marwan
and Marwan’s son, Abd al Malik, and Abdul ibn Zubayr, a nephew of Muhammad’s
confidant, Kadijah, all of whom claim to be the true Caliph and have gained large
followings. This will provide an opportunity for enemies of the new faith to rally against
it in the upcoming century.
701 AD--Emperor Flavius I of Rome dies, and is succeeded by his son, Flavius Gaius
Strabo, who reigns as Emperor Flavius II. In this year, Caliph Mu’awiya II is defeated
and captured by the forces of Abd al Malik. He is executed shortly afterward, and Abd al
Malik declares himself the new Caliph.
705 AD--Empress Wu Chou of China is deposed by her son, who restores the T’ang
Dynasty to the throne of China. The son assumes the imperial name of Chung Tsung.
Abd al Malik dies, and is succeeded as Caliph by his son, Al Walid I.
707 AD--The forces of Caliph Al Walid I defeat the army of Abdul ibn Zubayr. Abdul
ibn Zubayr is captured and executed. The last of the major pretenders to the Caliphate is
thus eliminated, and the Marwanate branch of the Ummayad House is firmly established
on the throne. But the flames of rebellion continue to burn in various places throughout
the Islamic realm, and Al Walid will spend most of his reign putting down these
rebellions. This will not preclude some expansion of the Muslim Empire, however, as
later entries will show.
710 AD--Japan's capital is moved from Asuka to Nara, modeled after China's capital
Xian. The Emperor Chung Tsung of China dies, and is succeeded by his brother, who
reigns as the Emperor Jui Tsung.
711 AD--King Hattusili IV of Hatti dies, and is succeeded by his son, who reigns as King
Hantili VI. Hantili, who will go down in history as “Hantili the Redeemer,” and to a
greater extent his son and grandson, will all be strong and resourceful rulers, and the
Hittite Empire will prosper mightily during their reigns. Also at this time, the Arabs
conquer Sindh and Multan (Pakistan).
712 AD--The collection of tales "Kojiki" (record of ancient times) is written in Japan.
The Emperor Jui Tsung of China dies, and is succeeded by his son, who reigns as the
Emperor Hsuan Tsung. Hsuan Tsung will be the last great Emperor of the T’ang
Dynasty, and the T’ang Empire will reach it’s greatest extent under his rule. The Arabs
conquer Transoxiana and convert the Turks to Islam.
715 AD--Caliph Al Walid I dies, and is succeeded by his younger brother, Suleiman.
Suleiman is indebted to political opponents of many of his brother’s most successful
generals, and he attempts to have those generals murdered. However, word of his
nefarious scheme reaches the generals and when he calls them to his capital, they refuse
his summons and instead raise the banner of rebellion. The Caliphate is soon being torn
apart by civil war.
716-730 AD--The War of Redemption: King Hantili VI of Hatti, seeing the chaos which
is reigning within the Caliphate, decides to take advantage of the situation. In the interim
since the death of Caliph Yazid outside the walls of Azatiwataya, the Great Kings of Hatti
have thoroughly reorganized their armed forces, and King Hattusili IV had made an
alliance with the Roman Empire which Hantili has renewed. Thus, in 716 AD, Hantili
and Emperor Flavius II of Rome jointly declare war on the Caliphate. Hittite armies
sweep into Mesopotamia, while Roman armies burst out of Carthage and Tingis in North
Africa. The advance of the Hittite and Roman armies is met with great rejoicing by the
persecuted Christian populations of the Caliphate, and recruits flock to the Hittite and
Roman banners after the Arab armies defending those regions are defeated and destroyed.
In the succeeding years, Hittite armies reclaim Egypt, Kush, and Axum as well, and also
advance into Persia, where they are likewise met with much enthusiasm by a grateful
population. Caliph Suleiman and, after Suleiman is killed in battle, his successors, lead
yearly counterinvasions from the Arabian peninsula, but these are beaten back.
Attempted Hittite invasions of Arabia likewise are repelled by fanatical Arab resistance.
Finally, in 730 AD, a treaty is agreed upon which recognizes the status quo as it exists at
that time. Hatti has restored it’s empire to it’s old limits, and Rome has recovered it’s
north African provinces. Only Arabia remains under the rule of the Caliphs.
718 AD--Caliph Suleiman is killed in battle with the Hittites near Damascus. He is
succeeded by his cousin, Umar ibn Abd al Aziz, who was personally selected by
Suleiman to be his successor, bypassing his own brothers and son. Caliph Umar continues
his predecessor’s efforts to regain the lost lands of the Caliphate.
720 AD--The "Nihon shoki" (history of Japan) is composed. Caliph Umar II dies, and is
succeeded by his cousin, Yazid ibn Abd al Malik, who reigns as Caliph Yazid II. Also in
this year, the Republic of Hellas inflicts a major defeat on the Bulgars, who are forced to
acknowledge the hegemony of Hellas. The Bulgars will be greatly weakened and will
remain relatively quiescent for the remainder of the century.
723 AD--King Hantili VI of Hatti dies, and is succeeded by his son, who reigns as King
Suppiluliuma VII. Suppliluliuma will go down in history as Suppliluliuma “The
Conqueror” after his successful campaigns to recover Egypt, Kush, Axum, and Persia.
Also at this time, Kathmandu is founded in Nepal.
724 AD--Caliph Yazid II dies of tuberculosis. He is succeeded by his brother, Hisham
ibn Abd al Malik, who reigns as Caliph Hisham.
730 AD--Emperor Flavius II of Rome dies, and is succeeded by his son, Marcus Livius
Strabo, who reigns as the Emperor Marcus III. Also in this year, the Khazars raid the
Hittite provinces in the Caucasus. They are repelled, but cause much damage.
730 AD onward--In the aftermath of the War of Redemption, a long period of relative
peace settles over the near east, especially in those lands ruled by the Great Kings of
Hatti. In the lands recently retaken from the Caliphate, Hittite and Roman administrators
begin rebuilding the provinces and integrating them into their respective empires. The
Hittites are helped by their tolerant religious policies, which guarantee everyone,
including those who have converted to Islam, complete freedom of worship. Thus the
local populations are bonded in loyalty to the Hittite King and his benevolent
government. Roman policies, however, are not as tolerant, and Muslims in Roman lands
find themselves the objects of persecution. Fortunately for Rome, the number of Muslims
in their territories is small, so they do not form a major threat to imperial rule in those
regions. Unlike the Hittites, who spend most of the rest of the century consolidating their
gains, the Romans will conduct several military campaigns which will greatly expand the
limits of their empire.
Meanwhile, in Arabia, the power of the Ummayad Caliphs is severely eroded as the faith
of the masses in the divine inspiration of the Caliphs is greatly shaken by the recent
defeats by the “heretic” Hittites and Romans. It will not be long before rivals arise to
challenge them. The resulting internecine fighting will prevent the Arabs from
threatening their neighbors for quite some time. At the same time, in Transoxiana and
the recently conquered regions of Sindh and Multan in India (which were not reached by
the Hittites before the end of the War of Redemption), the Muslim generals who
command in those regions throw off the authority of the Caliph and set themselves up as
independent Kings.
731 AD--Roman mine owners begin to use steam engines to pump water out of their
mines, purchasing them from Hittite sources. Within a short time, Roman firms are
making copies of the machines inside the Roman Empire itself.
732 AD--Sanjaya founds the Sanjaya dynasty in central Java (Indonesia) with capital in
Mataram.
740 AD--The loose confederation of Romano-Celtic warlords and grandees which rules
in Britannia breaks down, and civil war erupts. Emperor Marcus III of Rome sends an
army across the Oceanus Britannicus to “restore order.” Roman troops put down the
rebels, and peace is restored. But the Romans do not leave, and Roman governors and
administrators follow them to the island. Britannia is re-incorporated into the Roman
Empire.
742 AD--Emperor Marcus III of Rome dies, and is succeeded by his son, Julius Licinius
Strabo, who reigns as Emperor Julius I. Emperor Julius will be variously known in
history as “Germanicus” following his conquest of that region and “The Avar Slayer” for
his devastating campaigns against that people.
742-750 AD--Emperor Julius I sends Roman armies into Germania, where they defeat the
disunited local feudal warlords and force their submission to Rome. Germania is
re-incorporated into the Roman Empire.
743 AD--Japan's emperor Shomu founds the temple Todaiji in Nara (largest wooden
building in the world) with a colossal Buddha inside. Caliph Hisham dies, and is
succeeded by his nephew, Walid ibn Yazid, who reigns as Caliph Al Walid II.
744-745 AD--The Chinese Tang dismantle the Gok Turk empire. The Turkic-speaking
Uigurs, thanks to their alliance with the Tang, conquer the Eastern Gok Turk Khanate and
expand from Lake Balkash to Lake Baykal, with capital in Kara-Balgasun. The first
Turkic alphabet appears about this time.
746 AD--Demosthenes of Argos, a Greek inventor living in the Republic of Hellas, builds
on the anonymous innovations of several other inventors and produces the first fully
automated weaving machine. His invention is soon put to use in factories in the Hittite
Empire and Rome.
748-758 AD--Roman campaigns against the Avars. Over a ten year period, Rome
completely crushes these troublesome nomads and annexes their territory. Emperor
Julius I is killed during the campaign, but the conquest is completed by his son, Emperor
Gaius III. Gaius orders the rebuilding of the old Roman defenses on the Oder and
Danube Rivers.
750 AD--The Khazars transfer their capital to Itil (Atil) on the Volga River. Also at
about this time, the Bulgars adopt a Slavic language. Also at this time, the Palas rule
eastern India, the Gurjara-Pratiharas rule the north of India, and the temples of
Bhubaneshwar and Puri are begun in India. Also in this year, Caliph Al Walid II is killed by rebels. No new Caliph is named, as the tribes of Arabia cannot agree on a successor. Arabia fragments into numerous small, tribal states.
751 AD--Battle of Talas River between the forces of the Muslim ruler of Transoxiana and
the T’ang Chinese. The Chinese are victorious, but are soon forced to abandon their
gains by the outbreak of rebellions at home. Also in this year, Korean prime Minister
Kim Tae-song orders the construction of the Buddhist cave temple Sokkuram at Mount
Toham.
753 AD--The Rashtrakutas, a Chalukya dynasty, expand from the Deccan into south and
central India.
755 AD--Emperor Julius I is killed in battle with the Avars. He is succeeded by his son,
Gaius Lucius Strabo, who reigns as the Emperor Gaius III. Also in this year, An Lushan's
rebellion begins in China. The rebellion will span the reigns of three emperors, and cause
as many as 36 million deaths.
756 AD--Emperor Hsuan Tsung of China is forced to flee his capital by rebels
commanded by An Lushan. He is shortly afterward deposed by the army and his son
elevated to the throne, where he reigns as the Emperor Su Tsung. Su Tsung’s reign will
see the beginning of the growth of the power of the court eunuchs and the army generals,
at the expense of the imperial throne, which will eventually lead to the final collapse of
the T’ang Dynasty.
757 AD--The capital of the Chalukyan kingdom in India is moved from Badami to
Pattadakal. Also in this year, the Kailasa temple at Ellora is begun. Quintus Decimus
Lupus, a Roman inventor, invents a mechanical seed sower, which, along with the
threshing and reaping machines already invented, greatly reduces the labor needed for
agriculture.
759 AD--The poetic anthology "Man'yoshu" ("Collection of Myriad Leaves") is written in
Japan.
760 AD--King Suppliluliuma VII of Hatti dies, and is succeeded by his son, who reigns
as King Suppliluliuma VIII. The new king will be noted for his peaceful reign, and many
major building projects will be accomplished. Suppliluliuma will also be a great patron
of learning and invention within the Empire. Also in this year, Indian mystics such as
Santarakshita and Padmasambhava visit Tibet, where they are instrumental in the spread
of Buddhism in that region.
762 AD--The Khazars invade the Transcaucasus, but are defeated by the armies of Hatti.
Emperor Su Tsung of China dies of a heart attack. He is succeeded by his son, who
reigns as the Emperor Tai Tsung.
763 AD--The An Lushan rebellion is finally crushed by armies loyal to Emperor Tai
Tsung. But the T’ang Empire has been left in such a weakened state that the Tibetans
invade and succeed in sacking the Chinese capital of Chang’an (Xian). The Tibetans also
drive the Chinese out of the Tarim Basin, and they will not return during the remainder of
the T’ang Dynasty. This marks the beginning of a long period when China will be beset
by the Tibetans and will suffer several major military defeats at their hands.
768 AD--Hiram of Tyre, a Phoenician inventor living in the Hittite Empire, introduces a
greatly improved version of the steam engine invented by Aristobulos of Ephesus nearly
seventy years before. Steam engines begin to be used outside of the mining industry as a
result.
775 AD--The Rashtrakutas of India are defeated by the Chalukyas, who move the capital
at Kalyani (Mysore). Krishna I of the Rashtrakuta dynasty builds the rock-cut Kailasha
Temple at Ellora. Steam engines are first used to power automated looms in the Hittite
Empire.
777 AD--King Suppiluliuma VIII of Hatti dies, and is succeeded by his son, who reigns
as King Mursili VII. Mursili, like his father, will be a great patron of learning and of
inventors.
778 AD--Sailendra king Dharmatunga begins construction of the Buddhist temple at
Borobudur in Java (Indonesia)
779 AD-- The first Buddhist monastery in Tibet is founded in Samye by Guru Rinpoche/
Padmasambhava. Emperor Tai Tsung of China dies, and is succeeded by his son, who
reigns as the Emperor Te Tsung.
780-781 AD--Arab raids into the Hittite Empire are repulsed by Hittite forces.
781 AD--Tibetans occupy Dunhuang in China.
784 AD--The Japanese Emperor moves the capital to Nagaoka. In India, the Pratihara
king Nagabhata II conquers the sacred capital of the north, Kanyakubja.
788 AD--The Buddhist monk Saicho founds the monastery of Mt. Hiei, near Kyoto,
which will become a vast ensemble of temples.
790 AD--Death of the Emperor Gaius III of Rome. He is succeeded by his son Lucius
Gnaeus Strabo, who reigns as the Emperor Lucius I.
791 AD--The Tibetans capture Kansu, in China. Archidamos of Miletus, a Greek
inventor in the Hittite Empire, develops the first practical artillery rockets using
gunpowder. They are not very accurate, but are destructive and very frightening when
used against troops who have never seen them. The Hittites secretly incorporate them
into their armies forthwith.
794 AD--Emperor Kammu of Japan moves the capital to Heian-kyo (Kyoto).
795 AD--Warpalupis, a Hittite inventor, demonstrates a steam locomotive before King
Mursili VII of Hatti, who is greatly impressed. Mursili recognizes the potential military
value of the invention, which would enable rapid movement of troops and supplies to
areas of the Hittite Empire which are threatened by attack. With his support, construction
begins on a network of rail lines which will link the various cities of the Hittite Empire.
798 AD--King Mursili VII of Hatti dies childless. He is succeeded by nephew, who
reigns as King Tuwatis IV.
800 AD--Licinius Gaius Marcian, a Roman inventor, demonstrates the first
steam-powered boat. It is a small vessel, hardly practical for anything much, but will be
the precursor to much more impressive vessels in the future.
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It is good to see this back and moving forward.
My most fundamental question is what is the state of science amongst the Hittities. I am getting the impression of a hands on more Edison than Einstein development of engineering. But steam engines of some sophistication could use some very basic physics (pressure and temperature sort of stuff). So there is a spectrum of engineering / practical science / theoretical science / philosophy and then bordering philosophy is of course theology. What you are trying to do appears to be an Industrial Revolution without an Enlightenemnt. I am not saying that is impossible but you should consider ramifications. I would think enough of a protoscience would emerging to raise unsettling suspicion amongst even the relatively tolerant Hittite hierarchs and still more in Rome.
Anyway give it some thought.
Some relatively minor points. I continue to believe that the Persian Invasion as left a little more of a mark on India and Hinduism. For instance there may be the Hindu equivalent of Jihad and so if invaded by a religion perceived as hostile there would be an attempt to raise the alarm. Now it could be that the call to jihad is largely ignored.
In early gunpowder TL's I think grenades might precede muskets by a few decades. A formation of grenadiers in front of a Hittite army would lob grenades into enemy massed formations to break them apart as well as causing a few casulaties.
May have more comments later. As always this is very thought provoking without getting junky.
Tom
My most fundamental question is what is the state of science amongst the Hittities. I am getting the impression of a hands on more Edison than Einstein development of engineering. But steam engines of some sophistication could use some very basic physics (pressure and temperature sort of stuff). So there is a spectrum of engineering / practical science / theoretical science / philosophy and then bordering philosophy is of course theology. What you are trying to do appears to be an Industrial Revolution without an Enlightenemnt. I am not saying that is impossible but you should consider ramifications. I would think enough of a protoscience would emerging to raise unsettling suspicion amongst even the relatively tolerant Hittite hierarchs and still more in Rome.
Anyway give it some thought.
Some relatively minor points. I continue to believe that the Persian Invasion as left a little more of a mark on India and Hinduism. For instance there may be the Hindu equivalent of Jihad and so if invaded by a religion perceived as hostile there would be an attempt to raise the alarm. Now it could be that the call to jihad is largely ignored.
In early gunpowder TL's I think grenades might precede muskets by a few decades. A formation of grenadiers in front of a Hittite army would lob grenades into enemy massed formations to break them apart as well as causing a few casulaties.
May have more comments later. As always this is very thought provoking without getting junky.
Tom
I get the impression that Hittite society is very cosmopolitan, while Roman society isn't.
Regardless, love the update.
Regardless, love the update.
Tom_B said:
That is an interesting question. I think you are basically correct. Basically the inventors are building on the works of the analogs of people like Heron of Alexandria and Archimedes of Syracuse who existed in this timeline (Heron of Alexandria, of course, never existed in this timeline because Alexandria itself never existed. But I am assuming that someone like him did exist and that the basic early discoveries were made). There are some new theoretical engineering works being written in the universities, which also is contributing to the knowledge base for the industrial revolution. But the inventors are, I think, mainly gifted tinkerers, in the tradition of Eli Whitney, Thomas Edison, James Watt, etc.
Tom_B said:
I don't think that is as much of a problem as you might think. First of all, the kind of religious orthodoxy which stifled scientific invention during the late Middle Ages and Renaissance periods in Europe doesn't exist in the Hittite Empire. It does exist, to a degree, in Rome. But even there, the religious authorities never achieved temporal power, and they don't have the means to prevent scientific research and invention from happening. They might hold Rome back a bit by censorship of published writings, but not by much.
Where religion would definitely stifle invention is, somewhat ironically, in the Caliphate. The Islam in this TL is a very "crusading" (or maybe we should say "jihading") kind of Islam. It is very intolerant of other views, and I think they would be very literal in their interpretations of scripture, which would cause them to reject any science which contradicted the scriptures. So while in OTL the Caliphate saw a great flowering of learning and many of the writings of pagan scientists and philosophers were copied and preserved, in the ATL the opposite is true. More likely, the Caliphate is burning pagan writings rather than preserving them. They have embraced the printing press, but only as a means to spread their own gospels.
Secondly, there has been, to some degree, an "enlightenment" within the Hittite Empire, created by the printing press and the newspapers which have been active now for centuries. The public discussions being carried out in those forums have changed many attitudes. The separation of church and state and freedom of religion enshrined in the Hittite constitution after the wars of religion are a symptom of that. Indeed, the Hittite Empire is now basically at the same point Europe was in the late 17th century...the wars of religion are done, free expression is being tolerated, and the climate is right for scientific exploration and progress.
Tom_B said:
I agree, and indeed, the Guptas did carry out "jihads," so to speak, against the Persians and the White Huns in earlier centuries. The problem in India now is that it is disunited, and they are more involved in fighting each other than in facing outside threats. I don't think that Islam will be able to make as much of an inroad, however, as in OTL, simply because Hindu resistance will be that much more fanatical because of the Persian experience.
Tom_B said:
I agree with that. Although I think rockets, being rather closely related to fireworks, would be used first.
Tom_B said:
Thank you!
DominusNovus said:
To a certain extent that is true. The Roman Republic, and later Empire, have tended to be homogenizing forces. Conquered peoples have generally been "Romanized," eventually abandoning their languages and cultures in favor of the dominant Roman culture. This has not happened, for the most part, in the Hittite Empire. The Hittites have followed more of an "Achaemenid Persian" model of government, where local cultures are allowed to exist and continue and are respected. The only place where this has not been true is in Anatolia, where the Phrygians, Lydians, and other non-Hittite peoples (other than the Greeks on the coast) have been thoroughly "Hittitized." The Hittites consider Anatolia their own homeland, and the other peoples who came in after the fall of the original Hittite Empire to be usurpers. So those cultures were submerged and absorbed into the Hittite mainstream.
So, overall, there is a great deal more cultural variety within the Hittite Empire than in Rome, and in that sense, they probably are more "cosmopolitan."
DominusNovus said:
Thank you!
Historico said:Great Installment Robert...It's good to see this old timeline back and runnning again. I don't have much to say but, Keep It Comming
Well, the Tawantinsuya are probably next on the hit parade, followed by the Black Confederates. Then, we'll spin the Timeline Roulette wheel again, round and round she goes, where she stops, nobody knows.
Now, how are different groups in the Hittite empire mixing? Do the Hebrews generally stay in Israel, the Hittites in Anatolia, the Eyptians in Egypt, etc?
In other words, are the regions of the empire homogenous, with the entire realm being heteregenous, or have the various peoples mixed to any major degree?
In other words, are the regions of the empire homogenous, with the entire realm being heteregenous, or have the various peoples mixed to any major degree?
DominusNovus said:
What I envision is that there is some mixing. There is nothing that says that a Hebrew or a Babylonian or a Phoenician or an Egyptian can't go live in Hattiland, for example, or that a Hittite can't go live in Thebes or Babylon or Tyre or Jerusalem. But the core homeland of each people has not been heavily colonized by Hittites, as would be the case in the Roman Empire, where retiring soldiers were paid off with a land grant in a Roman colony in the provinces, and the Roman government often intentionally established colonies in different regions for the express purpose of "Romanizing" the local inhabitants. Nothing of that kind has been done in Hatti.
Instead, I would imagine that there are "Hebrew quarters," or "Egyptian quarters" or "Babylonian quarters" or "Phoenician quarters" in most major Hittite cities, composed primarily of merchants and tradesmen who have gone north to trade in the heart of the empire. And likewise, likely there would be a "Hittite quarter" in cities in the provinces which are similarly comprised of merchants and tradesmen. This is basically what happened in the historical Hittite Empire, where in many Hittite cities you find evidence that sections of town were inhabited by foreigners who were there to trade and conduct commerce.
Nouveau Riche & Enlightenemt & Rockets
I do not see a full fledged Enlightenment with the sort of Deist/Atheist cultural leaders looking to remake everything according to Reason. I think a more incrementalist series of changes are happening. The culture is more along the lines of the Renaissance limping into Industrialization. What there is of science in the Hittite Realm is likely to be very Hermetic.
How is the economic structure evolving? Max Weber makes the point the real enemy of capitalism in the early period was traditionalism which was stronger in Catholic Europe. What are the accursed Nouveau Riche doing in the Empire? There should be major tensions between them an Old Money.
Where I am going with this is I see a plateau period to Hittite development due to the lack of pure science,lack of optimal economic structures and class tensions.
I have no trouble with rocketry as an early use of gunpowder. Again it's role is to induce panic and if that fails to disrupt the enemy formation and lower morale. It is not an early form of 'Artillery conquers infantry occupies".
Tom
I do not see a full fledged Enlightenment with the sort of Deist/Atheist cultural leaders looking to remake everything according to Reason. I think a more incrementalist series of changes are happening. The culture is more along the lines of the Renaissance limping into Industrialization. What there is of science in the Hittite Realm is likely to be very Hermetic.
How is the economic structure evolving? Max Weber makes the point the real enemy of capitalism in the early period was traditionalism which was stronger in Catholic Europe. What are the accursed Nouveau Riche doing in the Empire? There should be major tensions between them an Old Money.
Where I am going with this is I see a plateau period to Hittite development due to the lack of pure science,lack of optimal economic structures and class tensions.
I have no trouble with rocketry as an early use of gunpowder. Again it's role is to induce panic and if that fails to disrupt the enemy formation and lower morale. It is not an early form of 'Artillery conquers infantry occupies".
Tom
Tom_B said:
I suppose that depends on what you mean by an "Enlightenment." While I agree that the Hittite Empire has not reached the same stage as Europe at the height of the 18th Century, I still would argue that they are on the threshold of that...i.e. equivilent to the late 17th Century in Europe, after the end of the 30 Years War. The religious issues are settled, and a more open and inquiring environment exists.
Tom_B said:
Hmmmm....Hermetic. That's a new word for me. <scrambles to find dictionary> Just goes to show it's never to late to learn.
Looking at my dictionary, I see it has 3 definitions....
I would assume you are using definition 3, meaning that science in the Hittite Empire is more related to alchemy and magic rather than what we would term true science. I am not sure I would agree with this, at least not completely. The science in the Hittite Empire is heavily based on the earlier work of Greek philosophers, engineers, and inventors (as well as Hittite, Phoenician, and other philosophers, engineers, and inventors who were influenced by the Greeks). My own understanding of Greek science is that it was more akin to true science than to alchemy and magic, although I could be wrong about that (Archimedes, for example, seems to have been employing an early version of the scientific method in many of his experiments).
Tom_B said:
That I am not sure of. I will probably write another detailed snapshot of the Hittite Empire as a prelude to the next installment of the timeline, and will be sure to discuss this then.
Tom_B said:
That's possible, but I don't think it is as big a problem as you are thinking.
Tom_B said:
I agree with that. Another possibility for a "gunless" gunpowder technology...small exploding projectiles hurled by slingers?
Questions
Robert, love the Hittite Empire timeline. I have some questions:
1. What is the population of the Hittite Empire?
2. How long will the Hittite Empire last (specifically, will you take this to the present day)?
3. How long will the revived Roman Empire last?
4. Will America be discovered differently, or the same as OTL?
5. Where will the Hittite Empire expand to, if it does so?
Can't wait for the Black Death and other events. Keep this up!!!
This is as good as your Egyptian timeline!!!
Robert, love the Hittite Empire timeline. I have some questions:
1. What is the population of the Hittite Empire?
2. How long will the Hittite Empire last (specifically, will you take this to the present day)?
3. How long will the revived Roman Empire last?
4. Will America be discovered differently, or the same as OTL?
5. Where will the Hittite Empire expand to, if it does so?
Can't wait for the Black Death and other events. Keep this up!!!
This is as good as your Egyptian timeline!!!
Unknown said:
Thank you.
Unknown said:
It's hard to say. The population fluctuates as provinces are added to or taken from the empire, of course. But a guesstimate would be somewhere in the neighborhood of 50 million at the present time. I base this on population estimates for the Roman Empire in OTL...during the reign of Constantine (early 300s AD), the population of the empire was approximately 55 million. When the empire was divided after his death, approximately 60 percent of that lived in the east, or about 33 million. We can assume the Hittite Empire would have had at least that many people, and probably more, during this same time period. Since that time, there would have been population growth, but that would have been balanced to a great extent by the deaths caused in the numerous wars, Muslim massacres of "heretical" Christians in the provinces conquered from the Hittites in the last century and recently recovered by Hatti, and the Yellow Plague. Even so, I would expect that there are at least 50 million people living in the Hittite Empire as of 800 AD.
Unknown said:
I haven't decided yet. I may continue until the present day, or I may not.
Unknown said:
Again, I have not decided yet.
Unknown said:
Likely differently. As another poster pointed out, I don't want to do a repeat of the Egyptian timeline.
Unknown said:
I think the Hittites are probably close to the limits of their expansion. They have a very good economic base, and probably won't want to overextend themselves.
Unknown said:
Again, thank you. I am glad you enjoy it.
Keenir
Banned
robertp6165 said:
Hi. sorry for taking so long to find this thread.
(I agree, Hittites are cool)
I hope your back is better now, and you are free from injury.
if I may ask, I have heard that you have your ATLs on a webpage...where is this marvel? I would very much like to see it, if I may.
have nice days.
You know, it's been dead longer than you've been here.Keenir said:
But this was one of my favorite timelines, and I still hold out hope that Rob will get back to it.
<doing best Michael Palin imitation> It's not dead. It's resting. It's pining for the fjords. <end Michael Palin imitation>DominusNovus said:You know, it's been dead longer than you've been here.
But this was one of my favorite timelines, and I still hold out hope that Rob will get back to it.
But as I have said when asked this on the GUNS OF THE TAWANTINSUYA thread, I will be returning to this. I just don't want to do six timelines at once anymore. I am going to finish out the Tawantinsuya and the Black Confederates, which are close to completion, then I will return to the Hittites and the Etruscans, which are not anywhere near completion.
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