Your region in Dies the Fire?

[joatsimeon@aol.com]

vikings of the Pacific coast? that sounds interesting....

-- the Haida were great seaborn raiders in the old days, hitting as far south as the central Californian coast. The Potlatch tribes were all extremely warlike originally.

The neo-Haida are of very mixed origin but retain a lot of the mythology, which is a common pattern. Most of the "Indian" groups in post-Change North America, at least away from the most remote area, are similar; with a lot of white-eye genes in the woodpile, and a lot of neo-Indian tribal trappings taken out of vague folk-memories, books and movies. As well as some real survivals, of course.

Sort of like the PPA's bastard feudalism, or the Mackenzies' pseudo-Celtic stuff, or the Merrie England trappings over in Britain, or the Renaissance revival tone of most of the Kingdom of Sicily and the Umbrian League.

 

[Amerigo Vespucci]

The whole series has a lot of the same feel as ISOT and Fifth Millenium, the former more than the latter, and there's a spot of Draka thrown in, but not nearly as much as the other two.

 

[Calgacus]

-- the Haida were great seaborn raiders in the old days, hitting as far south as the central Californian coast. The Potlatch tribes were all extremely warlike originally.

Hey do you happen to know if any of the pre-Columbian tribes on the East coast were seafaring at all? I was trying to find this out a while back, but none of the sources I looked at even mentioned it...

 

[G.Bone]

To: the author of Dies the Fire;

What happens to western Canada and Alaska?

Does the memory of Canada last?

Is there much effort in gaining the strength that the US once enjoyed?

What about Mexico?

 

[joatsimeon@aol.com]

To: the author of Dies the Fire;

What about Mexico?

-- Mexico is toast. There are 20 million people in Mexico city alone, and even the rural areas are densely populated and/or dependent on powered irrigation systems. Parts of the more remote southern areas and some of the mountain-and-desert ranches in the north have some survivors, but on the whole Mexico is much more badly devastated than the US.

 

[Fearless Leader]

Hey there,

I'll echo G.Bone, I'd still like to know what happens to Western Canada (I just happen to have lived there most of my life.) Seeing that it has a very similiar climate to Oregon (in the southern regions at least). To be honest I was quite dissapointed that Western Canada didn't play more of a role in the DTF trilogy.

I believe I posted this before but I believe there are quite a few areas that could not only survive the change but support a post change society.

looking forward to your response...

 

[The Sandman]

-- Mexico is toast. There are 20 million people in Mexico city alone, and even the rural areas are densely populated and/or dependent on powered irrigation systems. Parts of the more remote southern areas and some of the mountain-and-desert ranches in the north have some survivors, but on the whole Mexico is much more badly devastated than the US.

Sounds like the Zapatistas just hit the jackpot, then. Their system might actually work in this scenario, and they don't exactly have much local competition.

 

[Calgacus]

Hey do you happen to know if any of the pre-Columbian tribes on the East coast were seafaring at all? I was trying to find this out a while back, but none of the sources I looked at even mentioned it...

Or does anyone know?

 

[G.Bone]

-- Mexico is toast. There are 20 million people in Mexico city alone, and even the rural areas are densely populated and/or dependent on powered irrigation systems. Parts of the more remote southern areas and some of the mountain-and-desert ranches in the north have some survivors, but on the whole Mexico is much more badly devastated than the US.

With this in mind, does the idea of Mexico, seeing that there's a large population here in the US, attempt to revive it?

And on a related note, is Spanish preserved or utterly wiped out?

 

[Psychomeltdown]

With this in mind, does the idea of Mexico, seeing that there's a large population here in the US, attempt to revive it?

And on a related note, is Spanish preserved or utterly wiped out?

You'll have to realize that there's no way for them to return home, unless they make the LONG trek across deserts and hundreds of miles back to Mexico and try and rebuild. But who's going to do that? Unless it's a massive cultural/religious movement to head back to Old Mexico, there's really no reason to head back.

Whatever surviving Mexican populations in the US are in the same boat as the surviving American populations. First it's survival, then it's rebuilding to a point where they can sustain themselves, and after that it's either growing and expanding into lands that are pretty much emptied out by the death of everyone or fighting off others that are trying to expand and grow into your areas.

Spanish is widely spoken and there are millions of people who speak it solely, in Mexico and here in the US. Therefore there will be a communities that should survive that are pretty much wholly culturally Mexican/Spanish.

 

[Psychomeltdown]

Or does anyone know?

Not that I know of. Basically you're talking about stone age hunter gatherer types who rarely went out to sea, and those that did probably did so in small dug out canoes and the like.

 

[joatsimeon@aol.com]

Therefore there will be a communities that should survive that are pretty much wholly culturally Mexican/Spanish.

-- but not many. Most US Hispanics are urbanized and live in big megalopolitan centers. There are exceptions -- here in New Mexico, and in parts of West Texas -- but not many of them.

Incidentally and just as an aside, the number of US Hispanics who speak Spanish as their main home language is almost identical to the number who emigrated at ages 15 and above. Most of those born here or who emigrated here before 10 years of age use English as their primary language. In the third generation, it's over 90%.

 

[joatsimeon@aol.com]

And on a related note, is Spanish preserved or utterly wiped out?

-- Spanish is pretty well wiped out in Europe. In Latin America it survives, though heavily pruned back; the big cities die, but many remote rural regions remain. Spanish and Portugese remain the predominant languages in South America, Central America, and (very thinly) in the current territories of Mexico.

Some South American Spanish-speaking areas have a fairly "high" culture post-Change. Most of Mexico is so savagely hit by the Change that the populations which emerge in the post-Change period a long way down the civilizational scale, without a literate class and with relatively little cultural continuity. They're the descendants of very, very small groups of survivors.

 

[Peter Cowan]

I was interested in the prevailing view that the military would try to keep to things going until an eventual collapse. The one specific military unit I can recall (I've only read the first book and snatches of book 2 and posts about the series) was the Household cavalry / SAS portions of the UK Army. From what I see they were just as ruthless as Arminger in ensuring that something survived. Were these units an exception?

One other thing, "survivor guilt" - the remnant UK authority didn't just abandon people or hide out well away from population centres, they actively prevented others from crossing the Solent. I agree that to ensure survival that was the rational thing to do but I suspect an increase in mental problems / suicide amongst the survivors. Maybe that is behind the King Charles character going a bit doolally.

One another thing about the military in the DTF world. Without their guns/tanks/planes etc there is less to distinguish them from civilians than a comparable group of soldiers and civilians in the pre-Gunpowder era. Unless you can retrain and equip them with swords & bows quickly, I doubt they could exert much authority before being overwhelmed by the mob.

 

[G.Bone]

In Latin America it survives, though heavily pruned back; the big cities die, but many remote rural regions remain. Spanish and Portugese remain the predominant languages in South America, Central America, and (very thinly) in the current territories of Mexico.

Will this be expanded on in future books?

 

[Riain]

Military units would have a distinct advantage over regular mobs in riot fighting, they have training in unarmed, dirty fighting, and in fighting as units and teams. Even with simple clubs and bayonets this would give them and big edge in chaotic circumstances.

 

[Peter Cowan]

Maybe so Rain, but they would be demoralised, maybe hungry and quantity has a quality of its own.

Seriously, they would be in the position of a garrison of a city under assault. Once it is clear you are losing, discipline goes to hell as the troops start to think of their own and their family's survival.

Also, bear in mind most western armies have comparatively few combat troops - most are support units which lack the skills of close fighting etc. This may extend to anyone other than combat infantry and even there I have doubts...they are trained to fight with weapons and with armour/air/artillery support.

 

[Amerigo Vespucci]

Also, bear in mind most western armies have comparatively few combat troops - most are support units which lack the skills of close fighting etc. This may extend to anyone other than combat infantry and even there I have doubts...they are trained to fight with weapons and with armour/air/artillery support.

And what unarmed training there is is pretty much all on a one-on-one basis. Not the sort of phalanx tactics that would make organization successful.

 

[Riain]

A mixture of close order drill, unarmed combat training, regular unit combat training and unit cohesion would give military units a great advantage over regular people IF the officers and NCOs had the wit to cope with the situation. Military units would be no more demoralised than other people, probaby less so by falling back on their unit cohesion in the face of disaster. As for the cats and dogs of military units, they still have to do basic training and meet annual inspection standards. They know close order drill, which is still used to instill combat discipline and unit cohesion and would quickly remember their unarmed combat trainging in a pinch if teamed with infantry during muster after the disaster.

 

[MerryPrankster]

Mr. Stirling,

What happens in northern Georgia (USA)? Do the starving refugee hordes from Atlanta lay waste to everything or does civilization survive in some places? There was an article in the UGA paper about how Athens would be a safe place in the event of a nuclear hit on Atlanta, but DTF is a completely different catastrophe.

http://pantheon.yale.edu/~ag335/united_states_dzones.jpg

The map shows Athens (along with pretty much everything east of the Mississippi) as dead. Is that correct?

And did you get my PM re: the Samothracian-Draka fight in "Drakon"?