The Death of Göring and the Victory of the Luftwaffe

Status
Not open for further replies.
Mr.Bluenote said:
I'm glad you like the idea of making Ireland/Britain into a distorted mirror image of Palestine/Israel - good phrase btw -, your Lordship. Coming form you, that is high praise indeed!

Haven't though about the Irish minority in Britain, but of course they'll play a most unpleasant role. Hmm, have to give it some thought as to how I'm gonna fit it in to the story.

Hmm, how about playing up the religiousness (is that the term?) of the increasingly hard pressed, and oppressed, Irish and the ungodlyness, so to say, of the increasingly fascistoid and brutal British?

Uh, I like the idea of Green Brigades, and the idea about US support plays well into my desire to see the Brits trying to close off communication between Nazi-Germany and the US of A. Again a rather distorted mirror image (it really is a good phrase :) ) of OTL's Battle for the Atlanic.

Irish veterans form the Spanish Civil War could play a role here, I suspect!


Once more, thanks for commenting, guys!

My regards!

- B.

Irishmen are likely to become even more catholics, I agree. After all, Catholicism was always the traditional identity image for Ireland. I'm not so sure that New Britain will be "ungodly", though. Maybe because I'm seeing this a bit as a "Return of Cromwell". IMO, there might be a resurgence of Anglican church, being seen as the true British faith. In such a case, I'm afraid it would not be the tolerant, civilised Anglican church we know: think of it as a militant church, with little tolerance for people who do not fit in the mould. Mmmmm, do you think that a repeal of the Catholic tolerance act would be too much?

After the first wave of Irish bombings, there would be a popular sentiment demanding an expulsion of all Irishmen from the UK; which would not be likely, since it would make havoc with the rebuilding of the war machine. Still a few anti-Irish riots would make interesting headnews (and would get a lot of negative impact on the States mood).

Green Brigades, Irish veterans from the Spanish civil war, a new version of the battle of the Atlantic: all musts, IMO. There would be very suitable continental basis from which the Irish can be supplied: France will be Vichy once again (and IMHO again, there will be a lot of popular support; and very strong anti-British feelings); Spain is Franco, but I'd guess that Falangists would be more dominant in TTL.

I'm wondering if it would not be possible to postulate a slow and creeping liberalisation of the Fascist regime in Italy. In TTL, Mussolini is getting what he always dreamt of, and at a very cheap cost; popular consensus should be very very strong. It would not be so unlikely to make a show of restoring some kind of "guided" democracy: little risk, propaganda benefits, the added value of being able of getting rid of the most fossilised elements of the regime. Distancing even more from the nazis.
 
Lords of War
Oh nice guys finish last
When you are the outcast
Don’t pat yourself on the back
You might break your spine

Living on command
You’re shaking lots of hands
Kissing up and bleeding all your trust
Taking what you need
Bite the hand that feeds
You kill your memory

- Green Day, Nice Guys Finish Last.

Got one chance, infiltrate them
Get it right, terminate them
The panzers will, permeate them
Break their pride, denigrate them
And their people, retrograde them
Typhus, detriate them
Epidemic, devastate them
Take no prisoners, cremate them

He once had to be all he could be
Now he’s nothing for no one nowhere to see
Funny thing, he’s like you & me
It’s a funny thing, a funny thing
Tears streak his solemn stare
Abandoned for wreckage nobody cares
No one knew what would happen there
No one spoke no one even dared
Don’t ask what you can do for your country
Ask what your country can do for you
Take no prisoners, take no shit

- MegaDeath, Take No Prisoners.

After having appointed Air Marshal Erhard Milch as Armaments Minister, thus leaving Luftwaffe and the Reichsluftfahrtministerium - Reichs Air Ministry -, or RLM for short, in repectively Kesselring’s and von Richthofen’s more than capable hands, an immense power struggle broke out between the top Nazi’s.

With Schacht also more or less forced to retire longside Wever, the Third Reich’s economy and armaments industry were basically in the hands of only four men: Milch, Funk, Himmler and Bormann. Hitler, as custumary, simply keeps his head clear and let the stronger of his underlings emerge as winner. Besdies, he’s more interested in planning Operation Friedrich der Grosse.

Never friends, Bormann, Goebbles and Himmler showed their total dislike of each othert and lack of unity in the brief pause between the wars. Himmler, feeling left behind with far too few victories to show, did his best to undermine the powerfull patron of the Luftwaffe, Plenipotentiary for the Implementation of the Four Year Plan and Reichsleiter of the NSDAP, Martin Borman, in the eyes of Adolf Hitler and to elevated his own person and the SS. Goebbles, feeling far superior to the tough Borman and the, well, rather nutty, Himmler, used his propoganda machine to good effect, sprouting subversive lies about the Slavs and the need for selfsacrify in the name of nationalsocialism. Bormann, himself, was buisy buildng on the success of Luftwaffe and expanding his powerbase even further, thus naturally rubbing more than a few Gold Pheasants the wrong way.

In essence the squabble between Borman, Goebble and Himmelrs boils down to personal ambition and the future course of Germany. Goebbles was an advocate of total mobilization and total war – meaning all resources must be mustered in the coming war angainst the USSR (a view that’s to a lesser extend supported by Milch – who nonetheless knew he was indebted to Bormann). Goebbles sees it as the only way of defetaing the USSR. Then there is Bormann, who will not let the every day life of the average good nationalsocialists family be disrupted more than absolutely necessary – mostly because that is Hitler’s wish and Bormann was very good at judging the Führer’s wishes. And then there’s Himmler who wants in on all the sweet deals and share the power and glory. In Himmler’s eyes the SS should make use of it’s camps and foreign contacts to build industrial base based on the camp system, slaveworkers and non-volunteer guest workers. As Himmler saw it, there was no need to further burden the ordinary German, when there were so many others to work to the death for the glory of the Fatherland. Himmler was also somewhat miffed that he could not expand his precious Waffen-SS further with German soldiers due to resistance by the Heer – both von Manstein and Guderian in respectively the OKW and OKH did not budge on this - and thus had to feed his growing military with foreign volunteers and equipment. Bormann tried his best to counter this by letting Ernst Sauckel, one of his loyal gauleiters and newly appointed General Plenipotentiary for the Employment of Labour, recruite foreign workers to work in Germany. Funk, not really too keen on getting in the middle of this cock fight, were nonetheless leaning towards Bormann’s view that it was important not to rock the economic boat, so to say, and upset the Germans more than necessary by additional hardship. Funk as Minister of Econimics and President of the Reichsband – German National Bank - also know the costs of Goebble’s total war idea. Funk and to a lesser degree Borman was supported by the influencial head of the DAF – Deutsche Arbeitsfront -, Robert Ley. Ley’s preferences would later earn him both Goebbles and Himmler’s wrath.

In France especailly this intense rivalty was boht ssen and felt as France’s industrial structure would be reorganized by Milch and Funks ministries respectively and subordinated to Bormann’s Four Year Plan office. As in Denmark, Norway and Holland, the men from the Four Year Office as well as Milch’s subordinates would have a significant say in domestic French affaires. The situation were furtther complicated by the sheer power widlded by the SS in France, Holland, Denmark and Norway.

Meanwhile, the top military commanders were pondering how to bring about the end of the Soviet union. Recently promoted Field Marshals Erich von Manstein, head of the OKW, and Heinrich Guderian, head of the OKH, along with Jodle, Mainstein’s chief of operatios and a God awfull lot of staff officers and representatives from the FHQ, and at times Hitler himself, worked furiuosly at this endavour. While just some years ago, anybody mentioning attacking the USSR would have been carted off to a lunatic asylum, but nowadays few wearing the uniforms of the German Wehrmacht doubted that they could defeat the Soviet Union. The only problem was agreeing on how to do it exactly!

Manstein and Guderian seemed to get along famously – having alreay worked together on Operation Hermann - the invasion of Western Europe - but did have very different views on how to defeat the USSR. Manstein believed that to defetah the Soviet union, one had to defest and uttrely detroy the Red Army. Therefore aseries of binding attacks should be made, to tie up Soviet reinforcemtns and troops, while the Panzers tore into and right trough the Soviet line and encircled the Red Army’s frontline units – which were growing rapidly in numbers at the time. Guderian, never one for subtlety, saw the need for one concentrated thrust aimed at the heart of the evil Soviet empire. As he is often quoted of saying; “one strikes with a closed fist!” Basically, Guderian menat that, the Whrmacht had to focus narrowly at reaching and occupying Moscow. Several other military leaders, among them Kesselring, Keitel and the head of the Abwehr along with the SS-leadership held to the opinion that the Ukraine and Baltics should be liberated, as it were put, and its people, industries and vast mineral wealth put to work for the geater good of the Reich!

The political situation did play a role in the preparation of Friedrich der Grosse. Himmler backed th emultiple thrust idea as he saw and opportunity to add the Baltics to his area of recruitement – being populeatd by extremely anti-Soviet aryans, or something close to it. Borman and Funck were rather kken on seing the Ukraine added to the Recih, woiht its huge area of crop land and indutry, not to mention the large deposits of much needed raw materials. Goebbles were more aweare of the significnace of Moscow – a glittering propaganda price as Bormann demeaningly called it once. All in all the many views, opinions and personal dislikes put Hiitler in two maind, and the German Führer had a devil of a time deciding with strategy to follow. In the end, Operation Friedrich der Grosse was a compromise of all three. The operation would start with the pnzers spearheading huge encirclements at the fornt, aimed at cutting off and destroting in detail a smuch of the Red Asrmy as possible. There after, the bulk of the Wehrmacht would move on Moscow with strong forces attacking the Ukraine and a smaller attack up along the Blatic coast. The plan would be open for slight readjustments once it got under way if any unforssen opportunities arose. The norther Armeegruppen – Army Group - would be commanded by the aging general Hausser – former head of the OKH –, with the also rather old von Rundtstedt leading the thrust into the Ukraine – his forces were mainly Romanian and allies – and the central front aimed at Moscow being led by Model, von Bock and von Kleist – the latter in charge of the two strong Panzergruppen under respectively Rommel and Hoth. Few armoured units were avilable for the Northern and Southern Army Groups, but the decent shape of the Romanian army would nonetheless give von Rundtsted some quite powerfull forces to play with.
 
Last edited:
Right, I finally got a rough draft of the Lords of War-installments up - the weather is simply marvellous here in Denmark, so my time in front of the computer is at bit limited at present, so please bear with me! Anyway, I know Lords of War is a bit short, but I originally had this post tied in with the next in line, Retooling for more War. The splint, naturally, made each a bit shorter. :)

That said, I feel like the Lords of War-post is somewhat lacking and needs more work. So, any ideas etc etc are most welcome. I hope to have the next installment - Retooling for more War - fleshed out before long, and then return to fnish the Lord of War-post before posting it.

The whole Irish question will pop up, with Green Brigades, bombs, and what not in the next episodes involving New Britain (thanks for all your suggestions and bloody brilliant ideas btw, guys). That will most likely be after two or three more posts concerning the Germans and the Eastern War.

If all goes well, a few reworked TDoGatVotL-chapters will be up in Timelines after this, and then some new stuff in the MoS-ATL should be due wihtin long!

My regards!

- B.
 
Mr.Bluenote said:
Right, I finally got a rough draft of the Lords of War-installments up - the weather is simply marvellous here in Denmark, so my time in front of the computer is at bit limited at present, so please bear with me! Anyway, I know Lords of War is a bit short, but I originally had this post tied in with the next in line, Retooling for more War. The splint, naturally, made each a bit shorter. :)

That said, I feel like the Lords of War-post is somewhat lacking and needs more work. So, any ideas etc etc are most welcome. I hope to have the next installment - Retooling for more War - fleshed out before long, and then return to fnish the Lord of War-post before posting it.

The whole Irish question will pop up, with Green Brigades, bombs, and what not in the next episodes involving New Britain (thanks for all your suggestions and bloody brilliant ideas btw, guys). That will most likely be after two or three more posts concerning the Germans and the Eastern War.

If all goes well, a few reworked TDoGatVotL-chapters will be up in Timelines after this, and then some new stuff in the MoS-ATL should be due wihtin long!

My regards!

- B.

Yeah more stuff from Mr. B!

The Lords of War bit sounded good to me, but I am far from an expert on internal Nazi rivalries.
 
Good work, BN.
It's a short installmentm but gives a good idea of the rivalries within the nazi empire, as well as of the bloody German fixation with compromise in warcraft and ehgineering :D The three scenarios for Operation Frederik der Grosse were each one based on sound reasons; I've the feeling that putting them all together Hitler will end up as in OTL: a day late and a ruble short :D
 
Nice, mr.B. The Soviet will be hard hit, to a worse extent, in the upcoming war. Wait until 1944 and Europe will be even more nasty and destroyed.
 
i wonder if postwar (1947) the Brits will be as willing to rebuild Germany as they and US were OTL, or will they have further punishment on their minds:eek:
 
birdie said:
i wonder if postwar (1947) the Brits will be as willing to rebuild Germany as they and US were OTL, or will they have further punishment on their minds:eek:
To answer this question, I've to ask one of mine own: will there be a Russia in the post-war? If the answer is yes, Germany will not be punished too much; if the answer is no (larger Poland, independent Ukraine, and all the usual jazz), pity both the Germans and the French.
 

Glen

Moderator
birdie said:
i wonder if postwar (1947) the Brits will be as willing to rebuild Germany as they and US were OTL, or will they have further punishment on their minds:eek:

More germane I believe is whether Britain has the wherewithal to rebuild Germany even if they wanted to.
 
Lords of War
Oh nice guys finish last
When you are the outcast
Don’t pat yourself on the back
You might break your spine

Living on command
You’re shaking lots of hands
Kissing up and bleeding all your trust
Taking what you need
Bite the hand that feeds
You kill your memory

- Green Day, Nice Guys Finish Last.

Got one chance, infiltrate them
Get it right, terminate them
The panzers will, permeate them
Break their pride, denigrate them
And their people, retrograde them
Typhus, detriate them
Epidemic, devastate them
Take no prisoners, cremate them

He once had to be all he could be
Now he’s nothing for no one nowhere to see
Funny thing, he’s like you & me
It’s a funny thing, a funny thing
Tears streak his solemn stare
Abandoned for wreckage nobody cares
No one knew what would happen there
No one spoke no one even dared
Don’t ask what you can do for your country
Ask what your country can do for you
Take no prisoners, take no shit

- MegaDeath, Take No Prisoners.

After having appointed Air Marshal Erhard Milch as Armaments Minister, thus leaving Luftwaffe and the Reichsluftfahrtministerium - Reichs Air Ministry -, or RLM for short, in repectively Kesselring’s and von Richthofen’s more than capable hands, an immense power struggle broke out between the top Nazi’s.

With Schacht also more or less forced to retire longside Wever, the Third Reich’s economy and armaments industry were basically in the hands of only four men: Milch, Funk, Himmler and Bormann. Hitler, as custumary, simply keeps his head clear and let the stronger of his underlings emerge as winner. Besdies, he’s more interested in planning Operation Friedrich der Grosse.

Never friends, Bormann, Goebbles and Himmler showed their total dislike of each othert and lack of unity in the brief pause between the wars. Himmler, feeling left behind with far too few victories to show, did his best to undermine the powerfull patron of the Luftwaffe, Plenipotentiary for the Implementation of the Four Year Plan and Reichsleiter of the NSDAP, Martin Borman, in the eyes of Adolf Hitler and to elevated his own person and the SS. Goebbles, feeling far superior to the tough Borman and the, well, rather nutty, Himmler, used his propoganda machine to good effect, sprouting subversive lies about the Slavs and the need for selfsacrify in the name of nationalsocialism. Bormann, himself, was buisy buildng on the success of Luftwaffe and expanding his powerbase even further, thus naturally rubbing more than a few Gold Pheasants the wrong way.

In essence the squabble between Borman, Goebble and Himmelrs boils down to personal ambition and the future course of Germany. Goebbles was an advocate of total mobilization and total war – meaning all resources must be mustered in the coming war angainst the USSR (a view that’s to a lesser extend supported by Milch – who nonetheless knew he was indebted to Bormann). Goebbles sees it as the only way of defetaing the USSR. Then there is Bormann, who will not let the every day life of the average good nationalsocialists family be disrupted more than absolutely necessary – mostly because that is Hitler’s wish and Bormann was very good at judging the Führer’s wishes. And then there’s Himmler who wants in on all the sweet deals and share the power and glory. In Himmler’s eyes the SS should make use of it’s camps and foreign contacts to build an industrial base under firm SS control and based on the camp system, slaveworkers and non-volunteer guest workers. As Himmler saw it, there was no need to further burden the ordinary German, when there were so many others to work to the death for the glory of the Fatherland. Himmler was also somewhat miffed that he could not expand his precious Waffen-SS further with German soldiers due to resistance by the Heer – both von Manstein and Guderian in respectively the OKW and OKH did not budge on this - and thus had to feed his growing military with foreign volunteers and equipment. Bormann tried his best to counter this by letting Ernst Sauckel, one of his loyal gauleiters and newly appointed General Plenipotentiary for the Employment of Labour, recruite foreign workers to work in Germany and thus prove that there was no immediate need for the SS to expand further economically. Funk, not really too keen on getting in the middle of this cock fight, were nonetheless leaning towards Bormann’s view that it was important not to rock the economic boat, so to say, and upset the Germans more than necessary by additional hardship. Funk as Minister of Econimics and President of the Reichsband – German National Bank - also know the costs of Goebble’s total war idea. Funk and to a lesser degree Borman was supported by the influencial head of the DAF – Deutsche Arbeitsfront -, Robert Ley. Ley’s preferences would later earn him both Goebble’s and Himmler’s wrath.

In France especailly this intense rivalty was boht ssen and felt as France’s industrial structure would be reorganized by Milch and Funks ministries respectively and subordinated to Bormann’s Four Year Plan office. As in Denmark, Norway and Holland, the men from the Four Year Office as well as Milch’s subordinates would have a significant say in domestic French affaires. The situation were furtther complicated by the sheer power widlded by the SS in France, Holland, Denmark and Norway.

Meanwhile, the top military commanders were pondering how to bring about the end of the Soviet union. Recently promoted Field Marshals Erich von Manstein, head of the OKW, and Heinrich Guderian, head of the OKH, along with Alfred Jodl, the Chef des Wehrmachtsführungsstabes - Chief of Operations in the OKW -, and a God awfull lot of staff officers and representatives from the FHQ, and at times the Groesste Feldherrn Alle Zeit - Greatest Field General of All Time -, Hitler, himself, worked furiuosly at this endavour. The akronym GROFAZ was coined by Goebbles at a high level Nazi Party meeting in early 1940 as the final preparations for Operation Friedrich der Grosse were taking place, and subsequently used shamelessly by him, his flunkies and the Propaganda Ministry, to fan Hitler’s steadily growing megalomanic warlord-fantasies, and to gain Goebbels some political capaital with the Führer.

While just some years ago, anybody mentioning attacking the USSR would have been carted off to a lunatic asylum, but nowadays few wearing the uniforms of the German Wehrmacht doubted that they could defeat the Soviet Union. The only problem was agreeing on how to do it exactly! And while Manstein and Guderian seemed to get along famously – having alreay worked together on Operation Hermann - the invasion of Western Europe – they did have very different views on how to defeat the USSR.

Field Marshall von Manstein believed that to defeat the Soviet Union, one had to defeat and utterly destroy the Red Army. Therefore a series of binding attacks should be made, to tie up Soviet reinforcements and troops, while the Panzers tore into and right trough the Soviet line and continued to encircled the forward deployed divisons. The Red Army’s frontline units were growing rapidly in numbers at the time, and is rather ironically said to have caused no small amount of joy in the various German staffs.

Field Marshal Heinz Guderian – the Chief of the OKH and former General der Schenlltruppen -, never one for subtlety, saw the need for one concentrated thrust aimed at the heart of the evil Soviet empire. As he is often quoted of saying; “one strikes with a closed fist!” Basically, Guderian meant that the Wehrmacht had to focus narrowly on reaching and occupying Moscow. The Soviet capital being not only the all-important political hub of the Soviet Union, but also the center for nearly all the Union’s railroads, and most other transport ways as well. Thus Moscow was absolutely essential for moving troops and supplies in south-north direction, but also as a vital link to the areas in and behind the Urals. Moscow was also an important national symbol and substantial industrial center as well.

Several other military leaders, among them generals Jodl and Keitel, the head of the Abwehr, Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, and most of the SS and Nazi-leadership, including both Heinrich Himmler and Joachim von Ribbentrop, for various and often personal reasons held to the opinion that the Ukraine and Baltics should be liberated, as it were phrased at the time, and its people, industries and vast mineral wealth put to work for the greater good of the Reich! The fact that conquering said areas would also deny their use to the USSR played a major part in the argument for this strategy. It seemed like Jodl, really beginning to shine as military strategist and theorist after von Manstein had taken over the OKW – the duo would for most of the War show themselves to be amongst the best high level military leaders ever to take command of an Army -, and Canaris seemed to have a firm idea of the War against Soviet Russia as being a ong term affaire, whereas Keitel just put forth what he believed his beloved Führer wanted to hear. Himmler’s reasons are made clears elsewhere. The Foreign Minister von Ribbentrop, along with several high level Nazi Party officials and SS-men – often the same people just wearing two hats, so to say - saw the liberation of the Baltics and a thrust into the southern parts of the USSR as a way of creating a series of vasal states, which of course would place his ministry in the foreground of affaires.

The Kriegsmarine’s fear of being faced with diminishing budgets and influence, now that Britain had been successfully knocked out of the war, so to say, threw their full weight behind the idea of a strong assault along the Baltics, and made a case for liberating Finland. That said, and Raeder being far from stupid, did prepare for other less glamourous types of missions. The Marines began to train in a riverine assault role, and several other Kriegmarines units likewise began to train for a riverine warfare role. To that effect, a series of smaller vessels began construction or modification for use as gunboats for use on rivers and lakes. The Marinefährprahme, MFP, and The Marine Artillerie Leichter, MAL, featured prominently in these endavours. The MFP being a very adaptable universal vessel, but a bit big, and the smaller MAL would prove its usefullness during the invasion of the USSR, where MAL’s were used extensively in the Caspian Sea, Sea of Azov, the Leningrad-area and the Black Sea. The KLK too began to prepare for an amphibious and/or land support role, while asking for more of the newer helicopter models for transport, recon, combat and stepped up the development pace of the dedicated Unterseeboot Jaeger Fl-41 Grief - Griffin.

In the Luftwaffe Oberkommando, Air Marshal Kesselring were acutely aware of the resources located in the Ukraine and the Caucasus further eastwards and strongly felt that it was needed for the Wehrmacht, or more precisely the Luftwaffe, to have access to said resources, be it mineral wealth, oil or industry. Having secure the Ukraine would alos gain Luftwaffe important bases form with the could strike deep into the Soviet rear – the fact the numerous new industrial cities sprung up in the Urals almost weekly were not lost on either Luftwaffe or Abwehr – the interservice German Military Intelligence Agency. Soon Schwere Kampfgeschwader 12 and the newly formed Schwere Kampfgeschwader 22 began training for long range operations. The huge four-engined He-177’s were supported by the versatile two-engined Raubvogels and Ju-88’s, with the latter serving as escorts, pathfinders, pojnt attck crafts and in several other capacities. New downlooking RADARs and navigation equipment, the two tone Oktave system for example, were also tested and put into use.

The political situation did play a role in the preparation of Friedrich der Grosse. Himmler backed th emultiple thrust idea as he saw and opportunity to add the Baltics to his area of recruitement – being populeatd by extremely anti-Soviet aryans, or something close to it. Borman and Funck were rather kken on seing the Ukraine added to the Recih, woiht its huge area of crop land and indutry, not to mention the large deposits of much needed raw materials. Dr. Goebbles were more aware of the significance of Moscow – a glittering propaganda price as Bormann demeaningly called it once. All in all, the many views, opinions, personal likes and dislikes put the GROFAZ in two minds, and the German Führer had a devil of a time deciding which strategy to follow.

In the end, Operation Friedrich der Grosse was a compromise of all three. The operation would start with the panzers spearheading huge encirclements at the front, aimed at cutting off and destroying in detail as much of the Red Army as possible. There after, the bulk of the Wehrmacht would move on Moscow with strong forces attacking the Ukraine and a smaller attack up along the Baltic coastline supported by the Kriegsmarine. The plan would be open for slight readjustments once it got under way if any unforseen opportunities arose. The norther Armeegruppen – Army Group - would be commanded by the aging general Hausser – former head of the OKH –, with the also rather old von Rundtstedt leading the thrust into the Ukraine – his forces were mainly Romanian – and the central front aimed at Moscow being led by Model, von Bock and von Kleist – the latter in charge of the two strong Panzergruppen under respectively Rommel and Hoth. The central attack would move north and south of the almost inpenetable Pripjet Marshes and on to Moscow via two separate axis of advance. The first would roughly be via Brest-Litovsk, Minsk, Smolensk and then onwards towards Moscow, while the second would strike form Lvov via Zhitomir, Gomel and Briansk before moving against the Soviet capital.

Few armoured units were avilable for the Northern and Southern Army Groups, but the decent shape of the Romanian army would nonetheless give von Rundtsted some quite powerfull forces to play with, while the Kriegsmarine would serve to beef up Hausser’s Northern Armeegruppen. Several SS-Legions were detached to the two Army Groups – much to Himmelrs’ dismay as he believed the OKW/OKH did that to keep his Waffen SS-men out of the limelight.
 
So, here's the more or less finished version of the Gods of War-installment. I hope, I got rid of most of the horrible typos, and furthermore put in a good bit more text! The chapter is of a appropriate lenght now, I think!

Shadow Knight said:
Yeah more stuff from Mr. B!

The Lords of War bit sounded good to me, but I am far from an expert on internal Nazi rivalries.
Indeed, and thanks, SK!

I hope the new, update version is better, and actually readable! :)

Oh, I'm nearly done with your Tuscan Sons, SK - my God, it's one heck of a ATL -, and I hope to have something fairly coherent and somewhat intelligent to say before long (if I can say anything of the sort, Kalvan hasn't already said, that is)! :)

birdie said:
nice work:)
researching for 2 detailed TL's has gotta be a little tough, i'm impressed!
Well, I suppose the "strain" shows in the many typos and odd mistakes! :eek:

whatisinaname said:
Great story can't wait for the next part :D
Thank you very much, WhatIsInaName! The next part, Retooling for More War, is fleshed out pretty well, but still needs some work, I hope to have it up within a week or so!

birdie said:
i wonder if postwar (1947) the Brits will be as willing to rebuild Germany as they and US were OTL, or will they have further punishment on their minds:eek:
Well, I really cant' see the New Britain to care much for rebuilding Germany. I think a more OTL-Soviet approach is more propable - steal what's not bolted down solid and then come back with heavy tools and steal the rest!

LordKalvan said:
To answer this question, I've to ask one of mine own: will there be a Russia in the post-war? If the answer is yes, Germany will not be punished too much; if the answer is no (larger Poland, independent Ukraine, and all the usual jazz), pity both the Germans and the French.
If Germany and the USSR fight each other into a bloody stalemate somewhere out East, won't the Soviet Union find it extremely diffcult to reclaim all the territories otherwise occupied by th Nazi's when Germany surrenders/collapses in atomic fire?

And do the British really care for what happens in the Urals? This ATL's Soviet Union will be bled white and bombed flat, not appeare to be the Red all-consuming Juggernaut of OTL!

Glen said:
More germane I believe is whether Britain has the wherewithal to rebuild Germany even if they wanted to.
Probably not. I kinda see this ATL's New Britain as something akin to OTL's Soviet Union in 1945 - Victorious and dangerous, but internally very weak and the verge of total collapse due to the strain of war.

Thanks for commenting!

My regards!

- Bluenote.
 
Mr.Bluenote said:
Probably not. I kinda see this ATL's New Britain as something akin to OTL's Soviet Union in 1945 - Victorious and dangerous, but internally very weak and the verge of total collapse due to the strain of war.

Will this lead to a nastier collapse of the British Empire post war? Or they will reform, re-emerge, transform or whatever is the appropriate term and dominate the post war world for a long time? Like you've said, this Britain will be no longer a fun and cool place to live anymore. Like a poisoned sweets, I think.

Thinking that Germany will be nuked by 3 bombs:eek: and that was after they had suffered a long war with immense casualties, drained economy, bombed cities and industries. It will need a miracle to prevent the collapse of order in Germany. Also, Europe will be in chaos after this. Western Europe will be leader-less, so to say, and vacum of power will occur in Eastern Europe. Britain will be very paranoid after this, and may go at any lenght to ensure no one will emerge once again. Europe will hate Britain, while Britain will despite Europe.

The post-war world will be a very dark time. U.S. will withdrawn themselves into a long isolationistic slumber. Europe will lay in proud ruin with no one help rebuilding it. The Soviet, if there will be a Soviet, will find themselves exhausted and greatly weakened. Asia will be at the mercy of Japan, the same term go to Italy and Balkan. Britain, what will happen in Britain will greatly effect the whole world. If it collapse, then we can see a second dark age looming. And if it not, the world will see a new oppressor, so to say.

You have build a great and interesting TL! mr.B! Greatly enjoyable reading too!:)
 
Mr.Bluenote said:
Indeed, and thanks, SK!

I hope the new, update version is better, and actually readable! :)

Looking good Mr. BN.


Mr.Bluenote said:
Oh, I'm nearly done with your Tuscan Sons, SK - my God, it's one heck of a ATL -, and I hope to have something fairly coherent and somewhat intelligent to say before long (if I can say anything of the sort, Kalvan hasn't already said, that is)! :)

Thanks, I look forward to your comments.

Mr.Bluenote said:
Well, I really cant' see the New Britain to care much for rebuilding Germany. I think a more OTL-Soviet approach is more propable - steal what's not bolted down solid and then come back with heavy tools and steal the rest!

Probably not, but Britain has to trade with someone. Internal trade with the Commonwealth and trade to the rest of the world should do, but the loss of Europe (becuase it has been wrecked and looted thus poor) is going to really hurt the UK's economy.

What I could see is the new Britain having inidividual citizens investing in Europe (much as I see an isolationist US doing [although for the US a whole lot more as they should have more liquid wealth to invest]).

In which case the parts of Europe devasted (western Europe to Poland as those nations have large dispora located in the US especially) will recover eventually but be economic vassals of the US (and to some extent the UK).

Of course that's just my two cents.
 
Mr.Bluenote said:
Probably not. I kinda see this ATL's New Britain as something akin to OTL's Soviet Union in 1945 - Victorious and dangerous, but internally very weak and the verge of total collapse due to the strain of war.

Thanks for commenting!

My regards!

- Bluenote.

I do believe you let us have a peek at yr cards, BN :D
Shall we have a Bruxelles Pact, subordinating all of Northern Europe (France, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway) to the New Britain?
With an occupation zone in Northern Germany, obviously. And if you want be nasty, UK being handed over Dunkirk and the Pas-de-Calais, while French border is pushed east to include the Rhineland.

Am I on the right track?
 
Retooling for more War
Were living in repetition
Content in the same old shtick again
Now the routines turning to contention
Like a production line going over and over and over
Roller coaster

Now I cannot speak, I lost my voice
Im speechless and redundant
cause I love yous not enough
Im lost for words

Choreographed and lack of passion
Prototypes of what we were
Went full circle til Im nauseous
Taken for granted now
Now I waste it, I faked it, I ate it, now I hate it

- Green Day, Redundant.

I must’ve dreamed a thousand dreams
Been haunted by a million screams
But I can hear the marching feet
They’re moving into the street.

Now did you read the news today
They say the dangers gone away
But I can see the fires still alight
There burning into the night.

There’s too many men
Too many people
Making too many problems
And not much love to go round
Cant you see
This is a land of confusion.

- Genesis, Land of Confusion.

Milch, who himself was a very shrewd politician and a bit of an empire-builder, was busy rearranging the German armaments industry. The current high level of political infighting was actually turning out to be quite a boon for Milch as he could threathen the various Industrial Barons with either downscaling, increased state contol and foreign competion if respectively Bormann, Goebbles or Himmler got to dictate future terms. Most found that it was in their own best interest to follow Milch’s lead. Thus a rather radical change took place in late 1940 as a handful of core designs for each brand of the Wehrmacht was chosen and factory lines hard tooled to produce said items.

Basically, Milch implemented nationwide what he and Wever had done during their time in the Luftwaffe and RLM. As planes had been massproduced in impressive numbers for nearly 5 years, tanks, trucks, halftracks, armoured cars, guns and what not now began to roll off the assemply lines with increasing speed. A lot of designs were also reengineered to be simpler to build and maintain – usually German gear tended to by overenginered and thus more complicated than it had to be. During the Western War, Luftwaffe officers and RLM officials had noticed that the average lifespan of a piece of combat equipment was very short indeed, and thus didn’t have to be designed to last for years. The fact that a lot of the new simple designs, like fx the StuG-series and the new Panzer MkIV, were both easy to build and maintain and cheap too both, helped the German Heer boost its strength and numbers dramatically up to and during the first years of the Eastern War.

Furthermore, Milch were aided immensely in his endavour by American experts and Konrad Zuse’s punchcard driven engines. Assembly lines, massproduction, just-in-time and logistic supervision soon became often used bywords. Milch had in June, 1941, raised the production level by some 10%. By june 1942 it had risen by 100%, and in 1943, when it peaked, Germany had tripped her industrial output by simple means and rationalization.

The influx of new, improved equipment were put to good use as Hitler had decreed an expansion of the armoured formations. Basically the panzer Divisons were doubled in numbers by reducing the numbers of armoured regiments in each divison form two to one. While it may seem like a daft idea, it actually turned out for the better as the new panzer divisons now had an increased infantry element which would serve them well in the great advances and encirclements yet to come on the Eastern Front. A 1941-Divison, as the new reformed divisions were known in the Wehrmacht, had as said one armoured regiment of some 150 panzers – mostly a mix of old and new models of the Panzer MkIII and the newer Panzer Mk IV’s with one third being equipped with the 75mm short anti-infantry gun and two thirds with the long 50mm anti-tank gun -, a mechanized regiment with SdKfz-252N halfttracks, some tanks and lots of StuG’s, and motorized regiments – mostly serving as a modern equivalent to dragoons and later requipped with 8-wheeled armoured personel carriers and in the latter part of the war with the very versatile SdKfz-255 Nashorn - Rhino - 8-wheeled infantry fighting vehicles. The multi-wheeled armoured vehicles would play a signifanct role in the future of not only the Wehrmacht, but all modern military forces.

The German Panzer-divisions main advantage was speed and firepower, while their weakness was their natural tendency to outrun support, especially the infantry. So by increasing the integrated infantry element, the Panzers would be able to continue moving for a sustanied periode of time instead of, as seen in France, stopping time and time again to give the forcemarching Landsers – German infnatrymen - time to catch up. A tactic that gave the enemy time to catch their breath and also wore the poor bastards in the infantry down. Besides the reorganizatioin of the Panzer-divisions in itself, all the newer models of tracked vehicles came with a specialized rig in the rear that was able to hold a huge 500 liters rejectable fueldrum – droptanks for Panzers, basically. Furthermore, the idea of overlapping roadwheels were rejected and a more simple design were chosen along with other maintainance time saving measures that served to prolong the effective use of the Panzers in the field, and minimise the logistic tail needed for the panzer-divisions to operate. Needless to say, not all the Heers officers found Milch’s changes to be wise ot welcome, but Milch succeded in pushing them through!

Under SS supervision, 12 Sicherhietsbrigaden – security brigades – were raised. Each brigade made up of two regiments, mostly manned by soldiers not quite fit for frontline duty. Each brigade furthermore had a motorized elemenet – often a company -, a cavalry bataljon and an integrated and reinforced military police detachment. Not to mention a heavy SD, Gestapo and SS-expert element. These SB’s were to be tasked with maintaining secury behind the front and root out subversive elements. The brigades were actually often quite lavishly equipped as they received lots and lots of old Heer equipments, so Panzer MkI and MkII tanks, along with outphased Czech ones, made the motorized and cavalry units very powerfull - their task taken into consideration, that is. The entire SB command was under SS supervison as mentioned and was placed under overall command of Artur Nebe – much to the irritation and frustration of Reinhardt Heydrich, the SS-officer in charge of shipping the Undesirables to Madagaskar, and sparked an internal row in the SS. Something used by the chief of the Gestaopo, Heinrich Müller, to worm his way further into influence and power.

Luftwaffe’s much used and highly effective Construction Brigade were also transformed and reorganized. Not only were they shifted from Luftwaffe command to OKW command – something that brought about a major row between Manstein and Kesselring – but they were also expanded and had their mission profile changed from building air bases out of preconstructed elemenets in the middle of nowhere to also laying and relaying rail road tracks – the Soviet rail gauge being wider than the other European countries -, buiding or rebuilding bridges, constructing paved roads and establishing rear area suppy dumps and so on. In the course of the War, Bormann’s Four Year Plan Office slowly took control of the mostly civilian CB’s as much of the workforce were personel and resources came from said office. The new organization was named Organization Todt after its new commander – Speer had been ordered by Hitler in person to return to his job as an architect and get on with the job of remaking Berlin -, Fritz Todt, and to hide its true purpose somewhat. Todt, with a comission in the Luftwaffe, soon proved his worth as he had done so many times before.

With their usual sense of perspective, Milch, Kesselring and von Richthofen planned for a long war against the USSR. Not only in terms of range, but also in terms of time. Despite recent research into the matter, it is doubtfull that any of said men thought the war would in anything else than in total German victory, but it was obvious that they did not believe that war would end soon. Thus the Luftwaffe leadership planned for a prolonged startegic struggle and urged the OKW and OKH to secure the plentifull resources in the Ukraine.

Besides the political pressure, more direct means were taken. A second Schwere Kampfgeschwader, number 22, soon joined its 12th sister geschwader. The crews of the two heavy combat geschwaders trained in the use of not only the new downlooking RADARs and the Oktave-navigation system – using two different tones emitted by to separate transmitters to indicate a targete -, but also close formation flying alongside the powerfull long range twin engined FW-220 Raubvogel. The Raubvogel – Bird of Prey – nearly got scrapped – in its FW-187 Falke incarnation - because Milch originally found little sympathy for the project, but with airwar over the vast Soviet Union looming, the planes got pushed through with usual haste. The heavily armed FW-220 would serve as both intruder – Fernnachtjäger–, as a night fighter – Nachtjäger – and as an long range bomber escort as well. Usually the FW-220 would team up with the incredible versatile Ju-88 in all three roles.

The Junkers 88 would also serve as a distinguised pathfinder in the elité Sonder Erprobungsgruppe Barbarossa. The pilots and air crewes of Sonder Erprobungsgruppe Barbarossa – of which many were veteran pathfinders form the Battle of Britain (known by some younger German pilots as the Greater Turkey Shoot) - trained to navigate the wide expanses of the Soviet Union and pinpiont targets with everything from radio beacons to colour-coded flares and other excedingly advanced means throughout the war. Several extra long range Ju-88’s with presurized cockpits and special rigging were used as high flying recon-planes, again with great success.

The big, ungainly He-177 Geier – Vulture –, the backbone of the Schwere Kampfgeschwader, really came to its own over the Soviet Union. Its long range, good payload and deadly armaments served it well. The fact that it was next to imposisble to bring down in the early stages of the Eastern War did much to endear this otherwise ugly plane to its crews. Many a Landseers also found a place in their collective hearts for the big Vultures, as some 50 He-177’s served as close support gunships. These He-177 were armed with a side-mounted 75mm gun or the 30mm rotating gun for tank-busting and along side the Henschel Hs-129 - Panzerknacker - close support aircraft. Many of the heavy four-engined He-177’s were equipped with rocket boosters for take-off aid.

A new brand new and equally ugly plane took to the skies just in time fro Operation Friederich der Grosse, the purpose built early warning, command and control aircraft, aptly named the FW-331 Eule – Owl. The FW-331 would provide Luftwaffe’s Luftflotte operation over the USSR with much needed guidnace in the Easttern Airwar, and no doubt served to maintain German air superiority, almost supremacy, for much of the war.

Along with the Eule and Raubvogel, two other planes soon faced the light of day, the almost universal Siebel Si-204 - the Siebel Si-204 was a jack of all trades type of aircraft serving as a trainer, transport, ambulance and utility aircraft – and the Ju-252 Transport aircraft - Luftwaffe’s new primary transporter and general workhorse. The Ju-252 was an unarmed aircraft with room for 35 passengers in a pressurized body. The Ju-252 had an exceptional performance, and was maninly built by cheap non-strategic materials. A hydraulically powered Trapoklappe - rear loading ramp - allowed loading of heavy vehicles or freight whilst holding the fuselage level. The Ju-252 would be in service along with the diminissing fleet of Ju-52 and the bigger Ju-290 armed transporter and the huge Messerscmidt Me-323.

Better and bigger types of munitions also began to enter service in the early part of the of 1941. Cluster bombs, Proximity fused bombs, rocket assisted munition and a whole array of imporved and even more dealdy toys foujnd it way inot not only Luftwaffe’s arsenal but also that of the Heer and Kiregsmarine. The latter gained lots of succes – after some initialy problems - with its sound homing and air dropped – often from the dedicated Unterseeboot Jaeger Fl-41 Grief – torpedo.

Faced with a shift from a war against an island opponent to an entire landlocked one, the senior leadership of the Kriegsmarine feared massive cuts in their budget and a likewise massive reduction in influence and power. As mentioned before, the OKM made a strong case for an attack through the Soviet-occupied Baltic countries and for the eventual liberation of Finland. To a certaion degree, the Kriegamrine’s wiches were granted and the German Navy would be heavily involved in the fighting in Army Group North’s area of operations. The German Navy would also find itself lending support in way of landing and river crafts, gun boats and Marines to the campaign being in fought in the southern Soviet Union, as well as playing a vital role in keeping the large Red Navy submarine contingent under control. As a bynote it can be mentioned that the KLK – Kriegsmarine Air Arm – almost singlehandedly destroyed their Soviet opposite during the first weeks of the Baltic Campaign.
 
And with my usual delays and dallying about, viola, one new installment - Retooling for More War! :) As always, I'm sorry for the delay, but the weather has been simply marvellous here in Denmark, and just to hot to spend too much time indoors!

I kinda used this post to recapitulate a bit on Luftwaffe strategies and new planes - afterall it is a Luftwaffe-thread -, and weaponry. Hope it's not to borring. The Eastern War should kick off in the next post!

And thank you all very much for all your comments and musings on the New Britain! I seriously like the idea of a rather Cromwellian/puritan Britain being the much talked about distorted mirror image of OTL's Soviet Union. I hope you don't mind if I, ah, borrow the Bruxelles Pact-name, Kalvan? :)

My regards!

- Bluenote.
 
Mr.Bluenote said:
And with my usual delays and dallying about, viola, one new installment - Retooling for More War! :) As always, I'm sorry for the delay, but the weather has been simply marvellous here in Denmark, and just to hot to spend too much time indoors!

I kinda used this post to recapitulate a bit on Luftwaffe strategies and new planes - afterall it is a Luftwaffe-thread -, and weaponry. Hope it's not to borring. The Eastern War should kick off in the next post!

And thank you all very much for all your comments and musings on the New Britain! I seriously like the idea of a rather Cromwellian/puritan Britain being the much talked about distorted mirror image of OTL's Soviet Union. I hope you don't mind if I, ah, borrow the Bruxelles Pact-name, Kalvan? :)

My regards!

- Bluenote.

You are welcome, Bluenote. So, it looks like I read yr cards right :D
 
Top
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top